Pleasurable Money Podcast Transcription
34 | Being a Domme Makes Me a Better Coach
PODCAST INTRO:
This is the Pleasurable Money Podcast. Hi, I'm Meaghan and I'm the divine alien driving this here spaceship. I'm a pleasurable money coach with over a decade of experience in finance. During that time, I've learned that a mix of systems and spirituality makes a perfect blend. I have helped hundreds of spiritual business owners heal their relationship with money, and I'm here to teach you how to become money's ride or die.
Stop treating money like a booty call using the help of tools like breathwork and pleasure, which will be featured on this podcast and learn from me and other experts about how to own your wealth. Together, we will break down what it looks like to be in relationship with money and to be in full embodiment with your pleasure.
being a domme makes me a better coach
[00:00:00] [00:01:00]
Katy: Meaghan, thank you so much for doing this with me. Um, I'm so excited to have you here because like, as, as much as this is for everyone's education, I'm doing this for selfish reasons because I really have been fascinated about this subject.
And when I heard, when you told me that you do Dom/me work, that you are a Dominatrix, my jaw dropped like crazy. I don't know if you remembered. I was so excited and I knew I wanted to have you on. Before I let you introduce yourself, I'm just going to quickly introduce like what this is to the audience for anyone who's watching.
So I am right now interviewing my coach and I had no idea of the other work that she did. Um, but she is my money coach and we did some amazing work [00:02:00] together. And then, um, I am working on a project now called the Love Lost Dolls project, which is really like my love letter to all sexy women out there and women who own their sexuality and also a love letter to sex workers,
right? And I think because of you being in the discord and you following that, I was doing this project. That's how I found out that you also do sex work and I was blown away. So, um, why don't you introduce yourself for this interview?
Meaghan: Yeah. Hi, I'm Meaghan. I am a pleasurable money coach and I'm also a Dominatrix,
Katy: oh my god!
Okay, that is amazing. Okay. So, um, I guess we can just go right into, you know, understanding how this all works. Why don't we just start with the basics first? Like how, [00:03:00] um, how did you first get into this? Like what drew you into it? Tell us the story of like, how this started to happen. How did this become part of your life?
Meaghan: Yeah, so it's so funny. Actually, I got a DM from a random dude on Instagram that was like, do you know what a pay pig is? And I was like, no, what are you talking about? And he was like, yeah. I just think that all women should be paid to like, be just to live, pretty much. And he was like, I think you should know about pay pigs, which is, which is what we call
some people call, certain types of submissives in the lifestyle. Um, and so in and specifically in Financial Dominatrix, that's kind of the lingo that we use - pay pig. Um, it's not my favorite lingo. I prefer like pets or like slut. Some dudes really like to be called slut. And I'm like all about [00:04:00] that, I'm a slut, so like let's be sluts together.
So I was like, tell me more, like what, how, like, where do I even go to like figure out information? And he was like, well, um, I found my Dom/me, my Dom/me through Twitter. And so I was like done. I created a NSFW Twitter and it was born and I just like followed a bunch of dorms and kind of picked up how they were interacting with their audience and mimiced that and kind of put my own twist on it.
Originally. So I'm a money coach, you know? And so my whole thing is like money empowerment and like feeling good and lit the fuck up about your money. So it really kind of didn't align with my, with my message as a money coach to make men feel like shit about their money. [00:05:00] So it's different, a little bit different for me, the way I do my financial Domming. I, we talk a lot about empowerment.
I'm a much more like loving, like motherly, nurturing Dom/me me, than I am like a crack-the-whip like you have, but it can be fun to be like, you know, bossy and like rude sometimes, which they love, they love the duality, but yeah, that's, that's the origin
story.
Katy: Oh my God. That's amazing. So was there something about the way, okay.
First of all, I love that that like women should just get paid to exist. Right? Like, how sick is that? Um, was there something about your Instagram or the way that you were already showing up on Instagram that like attracted somebody that said like, you should just get paid being you, pretty much, right.
Like, I'm curious about that weird.
Meaghan: It was early 2020, and I feel like I wasn't really presenting the way that I [00:06:00] present now, which is very much like, um, pleasure and eroticism and like, like, um, being in your power around money. Like, I feel like I was still, uh, kind of in my fetus stages of my business almost, and it wasn't super empowered.
So I dunno what that guy saw. Maybe he just thought I was like attractive and he was like, you should be paid to be attractive or whatever.
Katy: Oh my God. I love that. Okay, cool. And so is that how you found your first client, like you said, was through Twitter or was that person that DM'd you? Like, did they become your client or how, how did that work?
Meaghan: He did not, I asked him, I was like, so can do you want to be my pay pig? And he was like, no, I'm like, I already, I already am
um committed to a Dom/me . So but he was like, but I, but you can go on Twitter. And like, he gave me the ideas and everything. He was like super nice. I literally haven't talked to him since he was just that one conversation and [00:07:00] he like went away. Like he just came into my life and then disapeared.
Oh my
Katy: God. Like a, like a, kind of like a fairy godmother, but like this dude. That's awesome. Okay.
Meaghan: Yeah. So, um, yeah, I started getting clients through Twitter and a brief stint on Reddit, which Reddit is a brutal place,
so
Katy: oh interesting
Meaghan: I didn't stay there for long.
Katy: Oh, okay. What kind of, what would you, what kind of things would you be posting in order to attract clients, like Dom/me clients?
Meaghan: Yeah. So it's a mixture of like humiliation type posts. Like you should be bowing down, you don't deserve things in your life, if you don't have a Dom/me , if you're not serving me specifically. And so there's like this power play dynamic of like, I am above [00:08:00] you and you should be, um, your purpose in life is to please me.
And so that's a mixture of those as well as just like personal, like warming up posts. It's, it's a lot of the same that we do in like marketing with our coaching businesses of like warming up, getting to know us as well as talking about how we provide our service and like what our containers look like.
So there was a lot of like, when, when you're my sub, like, this is how it feels. And this is like the transformation that I give. So it's a lot of like stuff that we learn about how to market our coaching business.
Katy: Yeah. Okay. That's so that's so cool. And so did you, did you find that fun, like the marketing side of that.
Meaghan: Yeah. It was a lot, it is a lot to have two separate businesses, two separate Twitters to separate like, um, you [00:09:00] know, pillars of a business. Yeah. And for a long time they felt very separate to me. I felt like I, I was two different people, but just recently, even since like we booked this call over the last few weeks, I've really felt more, um, enmeshed or like, like, like combined together between my two personas and it
feels really good.
Katy: Yeah. Yeah. I've noticed. It's super cool. So what do you think it is that drew you to Dom/me work, Dominatrix type work?
Meaghan: Yeah, I think that it was fascinating to me just watching other women, like. If you want to change your money mindset, go to sex work Twitter, because it is like, they are like so empowered with their money.
They're so [00:10:00] like, I deserve this money. I am in alignment with the money coming to me and it just felt very much like this is how I want to feel about money. And since my whole life is already about money, because I'm a money coach, it's it was, it felt really, um, in line with, with who I wanted to
be.
Katy: That is so interesting and cool, because like, it's so true.
I feel like some of us have so much work to do around guilt around earning money, or we need to prove to earn money or something like that. Right. Like we have to work hard to earn money and things like that. We can't just be gifted money. If we are gifted money, we feel like we owe people something.
Right. Whereas like what you're talking about, especially like, um, sex work and Dom/me work. It's like, no, I just, I just get, it's just like, no, there's no guilt at all. Right? To like taking someone's money.
Sounds cool.
Meaghan: This is so normal. Like duh, of course I [00:11:00] would be paid to just exist pretty much. And there's a little bit more that goes into it because you are providing a service and you are providing a place for you and the other person to have fun and to get your, your rocks off or your, your kinks fulfilled.
So it is a little bit more than just being paid to just exist, but sometimes you
feel like that. Yeah.
Katy: Yeah. But I think that's the mindset you kind of have to have to, right. Of like, like you are this hot shit that should get paid just to exist kind of thing. Um, yeah. So I would love to know more about. Um, okay.
So that, that one guy said that he's already committed to another Dom/me . So is it kind of like, it is, it is like a committed relationship type thing. Is that different for everyone? Or like, how does that, how does that like relationship work?
Meaghan: Yeah. So it's different for everyone. I do have several, uh, several committed [00:12:00] subs right now who technically they're like, like in their Twitter bio or like in their name, they'd say like, Goddess Hazel's sub or like, um, owned by goddess Hazel or whatever it is.
Um, and, but there are a ton of kind of, um, like booty call type relationship where they're just like, Like they'll create an account buy one of your PPVs or buy a session. And then you'll never hear from them again. And they'll like, delete their account. They'll block everything, like remove everything. And so it's like very like pop up, um, style of like working with people.
So it's, yeah. It's different for everyone, for sure. But I do have a couple of long-term subs that have been just beautiful and like we're really good friends. Oh,
Katy: amazing. So you have a relationship outside of the [00:13:00] Dom/me and sub relationship?
Meaghan: Yeah, for me, it's important. Like my boundaries specifically are that, um, it's not that I'm not always on that.
I'm not always in my Dom/me persona that we're getting to know each other. I want to know about your family. I want to know about your job and in that way I can kind of cater and tailor your experience when we do go into session, um, to be very
personalized.
Katy: Okay. Right. And so, so there is a kind of character that you, is it a character?
Is it a persona? Like, is it an alter ego? Like what do you call and do you have a name? I think you just mentioned like a name that you have.
Meaghan: Yeah. So I'm on the internet, I'm alien goddess, as well as like on the phone sex lines. That's, that's where, that's my little handle, but when they want my name, I use the name Hazel [00:14:00] for a little bit of like anonymity, especially if I'm on the phone sex lines.
Like, I don't want people to know my real name. Um, so yeah, I use Hazel and alien goddess, which I don't know, you know, that that's like right on brand for me.
Katy: Absolutely. Okay, cool. And then you have, so that's the name and then you have a persona you said, or something
Meaghan: It's a little bit of a persona. It's a little bit more,
you know, I just kind of stand up a little bit taller and I, um, and I'm like more demanding and much more like strict and also, um, encouraging. And like, it's just very different than like being friends, you know, because I'm now stepping into the thing, the, the object of your devotion. And so I get to be my highest self in that moment and be in my
power.
Katy: Oh my God. That is so cool. So how do you, okay. I have so many questions all at once. Okay. [00:15:00] First maybe just like when you said there's a session, so do you have like, kind of like a contained amount of time where this is like the time that I am being a Dom/me and we're, we're doing a Dom/me and sub relationship, like, so it's a very, like, you know, it's very clear or is it kind of like, do you have like.
You know, ongoing text messages as Hazel, things like that. Like how do you, how do you, how does your container, what does the container look like?
Meaghan: Um, my favorite type of container is that we chat most days for several hours a day.
And in, so like I also do a bit of lifestyle domination, which is really fun for me, like telling them what to wear in the morning, what to eat for breakfast, like what types of, um, like where they can spend their money, which is in line with the financial dominate domination. But, um, it also falls into like lifestyle dominant domming, which is really fun for me because it's like [00:16:00] micromanaging and a lot of subs really loved to be micromanaged.
So, and then yes. And then sometimes we do move into like a video call where, um, they'll be wearing what I tell them to wear when they show up. There'll be in the position that I tell them to be in when I tell, when I tell them. And then I basically just give them orders the whole time. And this is, I want to preface all of, I didn't preface this, but I want to say in the middle of all this, this is super unique to me.
And every single Dom/me is so different and like, um, like I'm still brand new. Like I've only been doing this for a couple of years. And so I'm, I'm going to be learning a lot over the next few years. And so, yeah, I just wanted to say that as I'm speaking about the way I do things and not the way it's done, just like blanket, you know?
Katy: Right. Okay. Cause yeah, it's, it's going to be very di like some, I'm guessing some [00:17:00] Dom/mes like really gear towards some of the harder maybe more intense stuff, right? And I guess it's just preference for everyone, with each person. Yeah. Okay.
Meaghan: Yeah. And
some, some Dom/mes don't, don't even do like video sessions and some type of some Dom/mes are a hundred percent in person, a hundred percent online.
I'm a hundred percent online at this point. Cause I started during the pandemic. So I've just never had the opportunity to have an in-person session. Um, and so, yeah, so there is a little bit of a separation, but like in our text messages, I will be domming them as well. Just, just lifestyle stuff. And then during the sessions, it's much more, it's much more sexual.
We, we use toys and we use, um, you know, outfits and certain things to elevate that experience so that it's not so mundane. Yeah. [00:18:00]
Katy: Okay, cool. So what have you, what, what do you feel like you've learned about? I don't know if it's like, what of, okay. My question is like, what do you think you've learned about people through this work?
It's or like maybe these specific kind of people that want to have these kinds of experiences, you know, like these kinds of fantasies, what do you like gain? What, not gain, like, what do you learn from all of that? I'm really curious about that.
Meaghan: Yeah. One of my favorite long-term clients right now, he is like a true, true switch.
Like he loves to be the Dom and he also loves to be the sub. So right now we're like playing in the subspace. And it's just fascinating to me how we can kind of go for a month or two and him be in the subspace. And then all of a [00:19:00] sudden, like it switches and he's in the Dom space. And he wants to like play with me being submissive, which I'm not usually as sub, but for him specifically, he's been here since the beginning.
And so we, we do a lot of stuff together, but it's just fascinating. It really shows me the duality of everything and like how people can hold multiple kinks and fantasies at the same time and be multi-passionate, multi, like dimensional beings and, and hold it all within this body, you know, it's just really cool
Katy: and so true.
I feel like I'm. So like I made a tweet recently that I'm like sexually liberated and I'm a prude at the same time. You know? Like I can be shy when I watch like a movie where people are making out and yet, like, I can fuck like a whore as well, you know what I [00:20:00] mean?
Anyway. Okay. I'm going to look through some of the, some of the, um, um, the questions that people were wanting me to ask as well.
Like maybe, can you also explain more about like, why, why do you think, like, people would want to experience like sometimes like a type of humiliation, right?
Meaghan: Yeah. I think it's, it's a self-flagellating thing. It's like a, it's a self-sabotaging, a self punishment. Like, let me, um, let me just kind of play and
and when I say, okay, let me finish this sentence, let me play in the filth and see what that feels like to get a little bit dirty and like to do the taboo thing. Um, and I don't want to say filth as in like derogatory in any way, because like, I believe that every kink is like, you know, to a certain extent is worthy and, [00:21:00] and should not be shamed, but in, it is a way of playing in your own shame and being at one with our shame.
And that's kind of, one of the ways that I teach about money is that we can use scarcity and shame as a teacher and a guide to, to being our best selves out in the world. Like we kind of have our sad bitch moments are like, let me just roll around and be like, you know, self-deprecating a little bit, and then step out even more empowered after
that.
Katy: Yeah. I wonder if there is something also. Kind of freeing to like allow yourself to just play in there and be told what to do. Right. And, and, you know, like, not, like you said, like, like [00:22:00] when you're in your persona, you are on type of thing. Right. Whereas as a sub there's something liberating that like, I'm not on, I am being told what to do and things like that.
What do you think about that?
Meaghan: Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm going to keep like, comparing this to coaching because it's, it's a lot like showing up to a coaching container and the coach already having an agenda for the container where you can just kind of sit back and be like, okay, I can be led. I can be held.
I can be safe here. And whatever comes up is totally fine.
Katy: Right. Okay. Yeah. And then that brings me to my next question. Um, what do you do to keep it safe, I guess. Right? And, but, or do some clients want to feel almost unsafe or, you know, what, how, how do you, how do you create the culture in a way, right?
Meaghan: Yeah. So to [00:23:00] me, there's this masculine container so that the feminine can play. And so we do a lot, like I have a very lengthy, um, application process. If you're going to look with me one-on-one so I figure out what you're into, what you like to be called, what your hard limits are. Um, anything that you're like, uh, is a soft limit that you are trying to work on, or like get more comfortable with, or just trying to see, like, if you like it or not.
And we do a pretty lengthy, like conversation around what do you have set up in your life so that you can be safe and held and comfortable after our sessions, because it's hard for me to provide the aftercare when it's all online. You know what I mean? So, um, it's important to me that my subs have support in their real lives.
Uh, maybe a supportive [00:24:00] partner, if not a supportive partner, then a therapist of some kind or friends that know about the lifestyle. And if, if none of that is set up and they still want to go forward, I make it very clear that it's on them to manage their own mental health with this container, because it can be very disruptive to the, to the nervous system.
You know, you, you leave, you leave sessions, sometimes feeling scattered or afraid, but if I'm doing my job, right, I'm like closing the container. Allowing some kind of separation from session to real life.
Katy: That's really cool. It sounds very, it sounds very caring. And like you said, like, like motherly or like, it sounds very, um, um, loving actually, right.
Even though I think in pop culture, when we think about a Dominatrix, we [00:25:00] think about one that is very, um, just like, yeah, crack the whip. Right. And almost seems like there is no love and there is no care, but in order to really do a relationship like this, it sounds like boundaries have to be so clearly set up mental health has to be so put in place.
Um, do you ever want to do something in person in the future?
I've thought about
Meaghan: it and right now it doesn't sound interesting to me to do it in person. Um, but I would never say
never.
Katy: Okay. Yeah. And then do you have things like contracts or anything like that, right. To that kind of stuff? Like liability type stuff?
Meaghan: Yeah. So with the Financial Dominate domming, uh, specifically I do have a contract that we go through and because sometimes it involves like, [00:26:00] I'm me actually managing the client's money, which is something that I do for my vanilla clients or My financial clients. And so that, that love of micromanaging in that way, like really translated into my Dom/me work.
So we do have a financial, uh, Domination Contract. So that, like anything that happens I'm protected.
Katy: Okay. Okay. That's cool. How do you feel about that? Like, what are your thoughts about this being a secret thing?
Meaghan: Yeah, I mean, I would never tell any of my clients, like what to do with their relationships, but I like, my husband knows that I do this work and it just feels, in my relationship, it's important to have everything out on the table, regardless of how, um, scary it might be to present that [00:27:00] to the partner.
Um, but everyone's relationship is different and, but, but I would encourage my clients to have that conversation with their partners, um, if they felt safe doing so.
Katy: Okay. Yeah. And, um, um, would you, would you share how you were able to have that conversation with your partner? Like, was that something accepted immediately or was it like tough at first?
Was that like a thing you had to go through therapy together kind of thing.
Meaghan: We never went through therapy. No, but he doesn't really get it. And he's like, totally like, like, you know, you do whatever you want. I just don't want to hear about it. But he also, like we had, it was more of like a, um, like I found out about this thing and it's really fucking weird.
And like, um, you know, when I was first introduced to it, I was like, this [00:28:00] is wild. I'd never heard about it. So, um, I wanted to talk to him about it. I was like, you know, what do you think? I think I might do this and like, see if I can make some money and like, um, he was like, yeah, you know, do whatever, but just like be safe and, you know, I don't want to know, like, it's just like, don't tell me about it.
Like, sometimes I'll tell him like the wild stuff, but like pretty much I don't, we don't really talk about it.
Katy: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So he has his boundaries around it. Kind of thing. Yeah. Okay, cool.
Do people do people like after a call or after a session, do people contact you and was like, and be like, that was an amazing session.
Like, and it was, and like you're both out of character right out of the role-play, but like they're giving you feedback kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. What about like the opposite? Do people tell you like, that was good, but like, I would like this more or something like that. Did they give you critique?
Meaghan: Um, not so much. Okay. That's something that I would really be open [00:29:00] to, especially because like I said, I am still learning and I want to know everything that like I could be doing better. So I'm especially subs that have been in the lifestyle for a long time and they're like open to kind of providing me feedback is it's.
Yeah, that would be amazing, but not so much people don't do that. Okay.
Katy: Interesting. I wonder if that's part of the Dom/me- sub relationship, like you don't give your Dom/me feedback
Meaghan: maybe. Yeah. Maybe I could see
that. Yeah, definitely. So what do we kind of
like the Dom/me is like the, the one setting the scene, like you have no, you have no choice, which I don't agree with.
I mean, sometimes might be very frequent like that and, and they're like what I say goes and you're going to have to just like it, no matter what, but, um, yeah. Um, like if, if they're [00:30:00] coming to me and like, can we do this for a little bit longer? Like, I feel like we switched from this to this too quickly.
And I was like really into that while we were doing it. And so, yeah, totally. I would love that.
Katy: Okay, cool. Oh my God. Um, what do you, what do you love the most about sex work or, or Dom/me work?
Meaghan: Yeah. I love, I, first of all, I really love the role-play. It's so fun for me to like, because on the phone sex lines, I'm not just a Dominatrix, I'm doing everything. So there's like a lot of girlfriend experience. There's a lot of, um, just normal, like, like girl next door come over and like seduce you type like role play.
And that's really fun for me. And it just like allows me to play in all of my archetypes, which I use in my business. You know, you and I have talked about the CEO archetype a lot and like that kind of thing. So it just kind of expands [00:31:00] my mind to everything that I can be and removes the shame from a lot of, the shame and judgment that I might've previously held toward parts of my own
self.
Katy: Okay. Okay. So it sounds like it's, it's also like you're learning a lot about you through this experience. Yeah, yeah. I can imagine. Yeah. Wow. That's so interesting. Um, okay. Let me find another, oh, this one's good, I think. What do you think makes a good Dominatrix?
Meaghan: Okay. Definitely someone who sets the boundaries at the beginning learns all the kinks, like, like there's a process and I know that a lot of really great Dominatrix, Dominatrixis
Dom/mes, do it that way, um, where they do an intake form and a good Dom/me knows what they're comfortable with as well. So I set my own [00:32:00] boundaries.
Katy: Okay. So you would just block people if anything got too, too weird. Yeah. If I
Meaghan: felt like we could have a mature conversation about it, then maybe I wouldn't, we would, I would just tell them, Hey, I'm not comfortable with this,
Katy: okay. So, okay. So it is like, uh, um, you do have to be really creative. It sounds like by like, is like a scene.
So like you, is it kind of like improv, like when you said scene?
Meaghan: Um, but yeah, like this scene is like the container pretty much. And then we, when we set the scene, when, when I get a message being like, okay, you're my next door neighbor. And my wife just went to sleep or like, I just got a flat tire or like something like that. And that's setting the scene and then we go into the scene and
play it out.
Katy: Okay, cool. And so do you, do you have hours, like when you say phone sex lines, does that mean [00:33:00] like you're like people are available to call between these times kind of thing?
Meaghan: I set my
own hours. So, um, usually it's just a couple of times a week. I'll be there if I have a slow day. Um, but I, yeah, so I'll set, like to taking calls and then I'll start chatting with people on the phone sex lines.
That's where I make most of my money, um, or the, the fastest money I would say, um, because I don't have a lot of long-term stubs at the moment. They're, they're really just people on the phone sex lines that I talk to occasionally.
Katy: And is that also Twitter as well? Like how people find out kind of thing?
Um,
Meaghan: no. So I use a site called NiteFlirt and it's pretty, self-contained like, there's a ton of clients already on it and they do their own advertising. And so just me being a flirt on, on the site [00:34:00] opens me up to taking new calls. I'm like, I have a list, like a few different listings, um, in the different categories.
So like I have a BBW listing and I have a Dom/me listing and I have a, just to like, um, women home alone, like I want to cheat on your wife kind of thing. Cause I, I find that really fun.
Katy: Cool. Awesome. Um, why do you think that like, people have such, like culture in general pop culture, like we have such a fascination with this, like Dominatrix, sub kind of like, um, relationship, right?
Like why is that? Like, why am I so curious? Tell me.
Meaghan: Yeah. Um, I really don't know. I'm I'm not like psychiatrist or psychologist or anything. I don't know much about like human behavior, [00:35:00] but, um, I'd say it has to do with the taboo of it just like it's not allowed. So it's fascinating. And also like hush, hush, and like kind of kept in the shadows and stuff like that, which that's how it's portrayed on media and stuff like that is like being at a dungeon somewhere, like being whipped, like on, on a, you know, on a rig,
which is, I think that's a very small percentage of all of
the Dom/me world. There's so many different types of domming.
Katy: Yeah. Yeah. That seems to be like, like what pop culture definitely. Okay. Like the, you know, with the strapons, right, with the gimp mask, like the latex and things like that. Like, do you have though,
um, not a costume, but like, like, do [00:36:00] you dress differently when you're in a session or anything like that?
Meaghan: No, I don't. And I actually know Dom/me 's who don't even like ever get naked at all and they, they don't show any parts of themselves. They, they will take pictures in like latex and certain outfits. But for me, I don't, I don't find latex comfortable.
So I don't, I just show up as I am usually to, sessions kind of to show them that like, I'm, I don't have to perform for you. You're the one performing for me. And usually I'll tell my subs to wear like panties or their favorite, like little skimpy outfit or. Come with the ball gag on and like an array of toys, all of that kind of stuff.
Katy: okay. So there is still the iconic ball gags and things like that being used as well. [00:37:00] Okay. That's fun. Okay. I'm going to look through, I had one. I had a question, but then I forgot. So I'm going to see, um, I'm going to see what else people ask me on Instagram to ask you. Oh, this is a question I wanted to ask you too, just like in general, why do you think sex work is important?
Meaghan: Um, I think it is so important. Like, like so vital to the society that we live in, because,
well, because it's an outlet and I think that's a normal answer of just like, it's an outlet for stress and anxiety and stuff like that, but it's, it's a truly trusting relationship. Like there are people who go to the strip clubs who have their favorite stripper, who they have a relationship with. They show up over and over and over again.
And like, like they, it's just, and it's good for, [00:38:00] um, it's like therapy, like, oh, like there's a lot of holding space for people's real life problems in, in a session or in a scene. And they may, they may play out a scene that they witnessed in a different part of their lives that they need to work through in their minds.
And so they may have a very specific need, which is, you know, I'm not a mind reader. So I really appreciate when people come to a scene and they tell me exactly what they want me to say, exactly how they want to feel at the end of it. But usually I can kind of gauge where it's going, like what they want from it by just what they're telling me at the beginning.
Yeah. Um, yeah. Does
that have, does that answer?
Katy: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like it's it's I mean, so, so the taboo, not, not just with like Dom/me work, but [00:39:00] sex work in general, right? The taboo it's it's it's sad or it doesn't make sense because it is like something that we're, we're all sexual beings, right. Or not,? Not everyone, obviously, of course, but like, like we all have this, we all have desires.
We all have. And it sounds like for a lot of people, you're maybe like the one place too, that they can really express all this stuff too, right? Like what, what they secretly want. What's really going on inside their head. They get to play that out with you and, and they get to, they literally pay you for a safe space.
It sounds like. Yeah. You know, and I can't, yeah, go ahead.
Meaghan: There is the sex worker for everyone just because I don't do certain types of race play or forced intox or anything like that. They're specifically forced intox Dom/mes, they're specifically race play Dom/me 's or sex workers. So it's like, you can [00:40:00] find what you need, even if it's not from me.
And that's, that's really beautiful to me.
Katy: Yeah. Yeah. That, that makes me think about how, like, there is a coach for everyone or there's, oh, there's a therapist for everyone. Like if one coach or one therapist doesn't quite work for you. Right. It doesn't mean that there's not somebody out there that can really be that safe place for you.
Um, yeah. That's amazing. Okay. What would make you take a break?
Meaghan: Life, coaching, um, I've taken several breaks over the years and I actually do want to point out that I have some unpaid subs as well. So not everyone pays me for the work. Some people like one of my long-term subs, who I was just talking about, who, whose wife is not into the scene, but she's, she knows about it. Um, that's like their one limit is that he is not allowed to pay for anything, but he can, he can play in the scene. [00:41:00] He's just not allowed to pay for anything, but she sends me like gift cards, sometimes, like Starbucks gift cards and stuff, but we don't do like pay per session or like monthly fees or anything like that.
Katy: Okay. And what makes you take on, um, free clients? Is it just for fun then for you? Or like what's your reasoning?
Meaghan: Yeah, it's mainly for fun for me. And also for experience, I took him on at a time when I was just starting and I was just kind of like taking, you know, everything that was coming my way, whether it was paid or not.
Um, and yeah, that one has just really turned into a really great relationship. And so, and like I said, we're really good friends.
Katy: Okay, cool. So. You know, like in coaching or in art, like, or in entrepreneurship in general, like, I think for a lot of us, the way that we think about it, the future for a lot of us that really wants to keep growing in it, it's like make more money, [00:42:00] right? Build an empire, eventually all this stuff as a, as a sex worker and as a Dom/me , is that, do you see that the same way? Like what do you think, how do you see yourself in five years kind of thing as, as a Dom/me , do you see just making more money or like, what does that look like to you?
Meaghan: That's so such an interesting question because I've literally never thought about it. To me, it's like day by day thing.
Like some days like I'm, I'm, I'm ready and willing to be on and like doing sex work and other days I'm not. And I, I, that's a super privileged position for me to be in because sex work is not my main job. So I get to, I've just never really thought about developing it as I would, my, my coaching business, whereas like my coaching business, I'm like, I'm like, you know, pumping, pumping it out every single day like, regardless of really, whether I'm like in the [00:43:00] mood or not, and that's my devotion to my business. But I, and that's interesting because I would say my devotion to my coaching business is like fueled by my sex work. So like, I feel like my sex work helps me be a better money coach. So I do my sex work to develop my, my, my own kinks and my own Dom/me sub relationship within myself.
Like me being able to like Dom/me myself or be submissive to certain like emotions, um, is really important to me in my coaching work.
Katy: Oh my God. That's so interesting. Wait, can you describe more what it means to kind of be a Dom/me to yourself?
Meaghan: Yeah, so I find that my brain is like very sabotag-y and like very like bratty and macy.
And it's just like, like, [00:44:00] so I, I, my devotion to my business, I have to like really Dom/me my brain and be like, okay, you need to get your shit together. Like, get, get dressed, like sit down at your desk, like, uh, you know, do your laundry, like stop making excuses for, for being a lazy bitch, which sometimes I'm just a lazy bitch, but, and then like being submissive to my emotions and like not trying to Dom/me my way through, uh, having an episode, you know, having a breakdown or like being super sensitive, um, and allowing that to kind of take me where it, where it will.
Katy: Okay. Wow. That's so that's so interesting how it does, you can, you can apply that to yourself, you know, you can like, yeah, you can, it's like a tool. It's a new tool for you. That's [00:45:00] amazing. Oh my God. I love it. Wow. Oh my God. Okay. Let me, let me make sure that like, um, I don't, I don't miss out on any of the questions that people wanted me to ask. Someone asks, is it possible?
Oh,
Meaghan: I was going to say, I saw a question in the discord that was asking about how I prepare for a session or if I like to go in virgin. And I thought that was an interesting question. So I'd love to answer that.
Katy: Yeah.
Meaghan: Um,
Katy: anyway, go ahead.
Meaghan: Great question. Um, that's so funny. It's and like I've taken, I've taken sessions from like the hospital parking lot or like the CVS parking lot. Like I just like, you know, we pull up on the phone and like, I, we do a quick session and like, it's, it's that simple, but usually when I'm sitting down here [00:46:00] at my desk, it is a bit of a process and I will have my own toys not to use on myself, but to use that as like a prop to, to, I don't want to say threaten, but like
to intimidate? To Intimidating
To intimidate personnel the other side. Um, and so yeah, I will get everything together. Kind of take a moment away from social media because like, I am going into a persona, so it's like, I don't, I'm not necessarily who I usually am. And so it takes a minute for me to like sit down and then I have, I have a whole playlist that I listened to, to like, get me in the mood.
I'm like all about generating playlists and like music and stuff. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, sometimes I'll eat something decadent like chocolate, or like, uh, [00:47:00] have, you know, a really nice drink. I saw this TikTok the other day it was like, I'm a beverage girly. And I was like, I am such a beverage girly. Like I need, I need like interesting and fun things to like have in my hand at all times.
Like, that's something I do as well.
Katy: That's so cool. Cause like, so it's like you have a ritual to kind of get yourself one in the mood and also like, to like increase your confidence. It sounds like, and it almost sounds like that's something that I feel like we should do, whether we're a Dom/me or not, you know, like, so do you, do you feel like the work, like, I mean kind of like what you said, like the sex work fuels your coaching work.
So do you derive a lot of confidence right? From, from the sex work?
Meaghan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's really hard not to when you're being called goddess and people waking up and. [00:48:00] I have a one sub who sends me a picture of himself kneeling every single morning, without fail.
Katy: Wow, wow. No way.
Meaghan: Yeah. So he like gets down on his knees, takes a picture of himself and he sends it to me and he says, good morning goddess.
And like, it's really hard to not feel super confident. Yeah,
Katy: absolutely. Wow. Oh my gosh. That sounds amazing. So is it always in the same, he's doing the same thing, like in the same place or does he change it up to?
Meaghan: Uh, it's usually in the same place in his bathroom, but sometimes I tell him to like put his, to get his pair of panties on or I'll like, his stockings on and he loves it and he like loves being called a slut.
Katy: That's so fun. Oh my God. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna just check again what else there is. Um, oh, so how many, like, it sounds like it's work to manage all these different clients. [00:49:00] Um, I know you said that you have a few one-offs and stuff like that. Um, but how many clients do you like feel, oh, well one, how many clients do you have?
And then two, like, what's like too much. What, what do you feel like is like the number that you would love? Yeah.
Meaghan: I mean, it's the same in coaching cause, cause I feel, I feel devoted to each of my clients and it is a long-term one-on-one relationship. So right now I have three long-term subs where we have either a contract or an agreement, an understanding of some kind who have been, been with me pretty much since the beginning.
Um, and let's see, have I ever gotten to my maximum capacity? That's when I take a break when it gets to just like a fucking lot, you know, so yeah, I would say
my max is like six or seven [00:50:00] because they do need a lot of attention and they need to be, and there's certain boundaries that I have. Like, I turn off my phone at eight, um, most of the time, no weekend stuff, because that's time with my partner and like, um, but during the day I'm like totally open to, to being there for the, for the relationship.
Katy: Okay. Okay. Okay. So, oh, Jules, there's another question. Wait really quickly. Can I ask this question? Um, have you ever, because of all these, all these different people that you would have to like, remember, right? Like the, the information of different people, have you ever like mixed up and like, like, you know, like said something that was meant for another client, that kind of stuff like, has that ever, have you ever had like a fail, like a Dom/me fail?
Meaghan: Um, not in that way and like not mixing up people, but, um, I'm trying to think of like, if [00:51:00] I ever like fucked up. Yeah.
Uh, there are some times where like, people will call me on the phone sex lines. Like recently this happened like last week, this guy chatted me. I was like, I want to feel this way, this way, this way. And he was like, and I said, okay. I asked like a follow up question. He said, okay, I'm going to call. And so he did.
And he was like, you know, I was asking him about his day and stuff like that. And I said something and he just hung up and I was like, fuck, I don't know. Like I was like, oh, I mean, I guess I didn't like, I guess it's not what he wanted, but I don't think I've ever had anything like that as like a Dom/me, but yeah as a sex work sometimes.
And sometimes you're just not what they want. And like I, like I said, I'm not a mind reader, so I'm not going to know exactly what you want unless you tell me, so.
Katy: Okay. Okay. So nothing, nothing crazy yet. Like [00:52:00] that's like, that's like, that's like really, really bad.
Meaghan: No. Yeah. I'm kind of like anal about my record keeping too.
So the form that I have them fill out, I have saved in my Google drive and like, I, I consistently refer back to that information, so.
Katy: Okay. Okay. So you, you review that, that kind of the, the intake form, things like that when you review that, like either before a session or like regularly kind of thing, just to remember.
Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Um, okay. This is the question that came in. Is this from discord or was it okay? Do you see parallels in the Dom/me-sub play and the influencers trend on social space, people enjoying being led, um, for some to pain. Okay. I'm, I'm re- I'm kind of like resaying that, but pretty much it's like, do you see parallels?
I guess maybe we can even like broaden [00:53:00] this, but like, like, do you see parallels in the Dom/me and sub play, like to other parts of society, right? Like for example, in the influencers space where people are enjoying being led and some to like, like, you know, I think people are talking about influencers, scamming their, their followers, stuff like that.
Like, do you have any thoughts on that?
Meaghan: I think it's interesting because I think there's so much decision overwhelm that we have every single day. So it's really nice to look to somebody that you trust and just be told what to buy, what to do, what to wear, that kind of thing. And yeah, I can see that that is paralleled in pop culture and like social media and stuff like that to just kind of place your trust on someone else.
So that it's just like one less decision you have [00:54:00] to make during the day, which like I get it, you know, I get it. Like we take on so much information every single day. So it's like making informed decisions about every single thing that you're making an informed decision about. It is very difficult. And so when you have someone you trust to lead you, then it, it makes everything much easier.
And that makes that, that one decision, like you kind of drop your shoulders and you clear your mind and you don't have to be in control in that moment.
Katy: Yeah. And I feel like. Getting like more and more options. Right. As we, as our society develops, we just have more options of different detergents, of different clothing brands, of everything.
There's just more of everything. And so having somebody to just tell us what to buy, what to wear and all that stuff. Like I remember in high school, they were [00:55:00] considering telling us to, they were considering I had a high school where we didn't have uniforms. And I remember like they were considering giving us uniforms.
And I remember thinking like, yeah, that would be great. Then I just don't have to like, think about what to wear in the morning, even though I would hate that now, you know, but I remember at the time just being like, cause I had to wake up so early as a kid. And so like just one less thing to think about in the morning.
Um, so yeah, I think it goes whack, go ahead. Oh really?
Meaghan: Yeah. And I, I was like, I had no opinion about it. I was like, I was one of those kids to wear the same jeans, converse and hoodie every single day. And so it wouldn't have affected me, but I think that's interesting coming from you and like knowing your fashion,
Katy: it would not make sense now, at all.
Yeah. But I think it's because I remember waking up at 5:00 AM in the morning. That's early for me, some people I know that's like normal, but like it was 5:00 AM in the morning to go to school. And I think [00:56:00] in that your brain just does not, my brain just did not work at that time in the morning, you know?
Like, so, um, yeah, I thought like the idea of, uh, of, um, uniforms sounded great, but, um, I feel like I understand the whole idea of that freedom to just be told what to do, because like, if I were to just, if I were to lean towards like, if I were part of this lifestyle, right? Like where, which way do I lean? I definitely lean more sub.
Um, and I think it is because of that, like that, like, I just don't want to think. I don't want to think, I want to be told by somebody that I'm attracted to and is powerful. Right? Like, like tell me what to do and I'll do it to kind of thing. So, yeah, I
Meaghan: You didn't ask this, but I will offer this up. I have only submitted to one woman.
I would, like, if a dude tried to, tries to Dom me, I'm immediately like, no, fuck you. Like, don't tell me what to do, [00:57:00] but there's this one woman that I follow on Twitter that I've been following for a long time. And I actually named my Jeep after her because we were, uh, in a, in a relationship, in a Dom/me-sub relationship at the time that I got it.
And so, and she like called me kitten and like gave me like lots of like praise and attention. And that's kind of how I, um, am working with my new coach. I told you I got our new business coach at the beginning of the call. Um, I told her, I was like, I'm like a super huge teacher's pet. Like I want to give, like, give me a gold star, like give me an a plus, like give me all the praise.
And like, I want to be center of attention with you. And so that's a lot of like a lot of my subs come to me because they love the praise aspect that I get. And I love to build my subs up and just be like, you're doing such a good job. Like you're such a good boy. Like, like, like thank you so much for like, [00:58:00] following my instructions.
Like you're doing such a great job. And like, I hope you have an amazing day. And so where me and that Dom/me are not in a relationship anymore, but, um, that was really fun for the short, I mean, it lasted for like a month. And then I was like, you know, I'm not really much of a submissive, but I played around with it and it was really fun.
Katy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. I guess that does make me think about how like you're right about the duality, because like, I feel like I have such Dom/me qualities in other areas of my life, but there are times when like, yeah, we just want to be like, just a little experience of being praised feels so good sometimes.
And then we're like,
Meaghan: Our inner child is like yeah
Katy: yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like, you can definitely have and be both. Um, amazing. Okay. Was there any other questions or anything else that like, because I think I asked all of [00:59:00] like my main questions.
I think here's one. Is it possible to find out if you a Dom/me or a sub sexually?
Yeah. Um, um, did you hear that? I'll just, re-say it, do you, is there a way, is it possible to find out if you're a Dom/me or a sub without a sexual experience?
Meaghan: Um, a lot of, um, I wouldn't say a lot, some of my clients come to me and we, we never go into a sexual scene. Um, and they are looking for more of like the praise, the reinforcement. Um, I would just say, like, I could give you like journal prompts to do like, as a coach, that's like my go-to to like, figure out what you're playing with. But, I would just
say, find somebody who you trust. Like you can come to me and we can play around with it and see which way you lean. And I'm [01:00:00] like, you can, like I said, you can find paid Dom/mes.
You can pay, you can find unpaid Dom/mes. A lot of people are in the lifestyle. Try, check out the website FetLife. And especially if you want someone in your area and you can connect with people in the, in the lifestyle, in your area who are willing to go through that process with you.
Katy: Yeah. I think I've, I've somebody mention, has mentioned that website to me too.
Um, okay. And then do you, um, um, do you have any other than fetlife? Do you have any other like, um, tips, I guess for people who are curious and things like that, like, how would they get started?
Meaghan: Yeah. Um, so sex work. Twitter is a great place to start because it's pretty anonymous. Like you can just create a Twitter and, and go and follow a bunch of Dom/mes, um, and see how their subs interact with them on Twitter.
And a lot of [01:01:00] times they'll post, um, snippets of their clips that you can go on like, um, AVN or I'm trying to think of only fans, all of the, all of the clips sites to purchase some and just see what you like, but say there's super affordable clips out there that you can say, oh, that sounds interesting.
And you know, in your, when you're watching porn, like see search something that you like. If I talk about something that sounded interesting today, search it on PornHub or whatever, and see if you like it.
Katy: Okay. I love that. I love that. Like, ultimately what you said was go follows some, you know, sex workers, support them, see what you like kind of thing, which is obviously like what I, I feel like this whole thing is about is like, I would love for there to be like, like less taboo around that.
And also just for [01:02:00] more sex workers to be successful. I think that's, that's amazing to me the idea of like sex workers, making a lot of money, you know, I think that's so cool. Um, well that's like the last thing that I had, um, I mean, I could ask way more, you know, that, um, but like we're already over an hour, we were thinking of only doing this for an hour.
Um, so yeah, I just looked too. Um, so I think we'll just start to wrap up because, um, I'm sure you have other stuff to do today. Um, so first I'll just, you know, I'm just going to like wrap up and close out. Like this whole, the whole point of this interview is because. Uh, like, like I said, you know, I think for both of us, we really care about sex work and we care about sex workers making a lot of money.
And, um, this was kind of like in relation to the project that I'm working on, right. The Love Lost Dolls project, which is like, it's, it's [01:03:00] 6,969 sex workers. That's literally it. And like, that's what I would love for everybody to be able to like, have, is like they have this like NFT that they worship, you know what I mean?
Like they, they have this NFT that they like pray to. Um, I love that idea.
One of the things that I wanted to make sure that people know about this project, the Love Lost Dolls project is that we are, um, donating to a sex work charity here in Indonesia for, um, uh, part of the sales is going to go to, to, um, they're called OPSI.
And it's obviously very important to me because I'm Indonesian and this is where I'm based. And it's the taboo here is still very, very large. Like there are absolutely no celebrity sex workers here, no freaking way. Right. Um, um, so it's, it really matters to me that, that this goes to them. Um, and because I feel like, [01:04:00] um, it's, it's hard, everywhere, right, for sure.
But I feel like it's, it's just really, really hard for sex workers in third world countries. And especially here in Indonesia where it's, um, it's against the law. Like it's literally like completely like criminalized. And that's what a lot of the, the work that OPSI does is like helping, um, helping sex workers who have been criminalized for their work.
And also obviously giving them, um, uh, you know, you know, access to healthcare and, and giving them, you know, just giving them like, uh, uh, just helping them with their human rights. Right. Because they should not be criminalized for this. So, want to just make sure everyone knows about that because it matters so much.
And then we officially also have a mint date for our NFTs it's on June 29. So that's coming up really soon. That's like in [01:05:00] less than a month, right? Yeah. That's in less than a month. So I'm very, very, very, very excited about that. Yay. And I just want to say thank you again, Meaghan, for sharing so many amazing things that was hilarious and informative at the same time.
Like, oh my God, that was so fun to learn. And we're going to have more interviews coming up. We have another one coming up on May 30th. Um, so stay tuned for, for like where that's going to be and all that kind of stuff. But yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. I really, really appreciate it.
Meaghan: Well, it was my pleasure and my joy and my passion.
I love you. And I love your project and I'm just so fucking excited for you, dude.
Katy: Thank you. I'm excited for you too. I can't wait to hear more of like where this business goes is going to take you. Like, I feel like you're going to like integrate your sexual side even more and I'm here for it. Okay, amazing.
I'm going to shut us off [01:06:00] now and I will talk to you later. Bye.
PODCAST OUTRO:
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Love you so much. Bye.