Sacred Wealth Podcast Transcription

Episode 19 | Gender Roles + Money

w/ Meg O’Sullivan and Emily Hazel

PODCAST INTRO:

You are tuning into the Sacred Wealth Podcast. I am your host, Meaghan and I am so excited to have you here. Throughout my 10 years in finance, I have come across so much anxiety and fear surrounding money. It is now my purpose to help women become rich, unapologetically.

The goal of this podcast is to empower you, to love your money, to be so ecstatically grateful for what you have, and to feel safe to ask for more. Together, we will figure out what your luxury is and get you on the path to financial freedom.

EPISODE INTRO:

Hi, everyone. I'm so excited for this episode because I am talking with Meg and  Emily all about gender roles and money. So these two powerful women are in heterosexual relationships with some powerful men. And I was just so fucking curious about how they navigate the traditional patriarchal views of men and women in heterosexual relationships and specifically around how those men and women handle money. This also is probably my favorite episode so far. I mean, the takeaways, every single question has some just juicy answers. So I really hope that you enjoy it. I am just so thankful to these beautiful women. Em is one of my very good friends. She was my website designer four years ago. Whenever I first started my business and launched my website, she has been my coach, she has been in a mastermind with me, she has been a client of mine, I did her bookkeeping for a while. We've been in all the relationships and I met Meg through Em.

And so yeah, this connection, this conversation was just so, fire. It was so fire. It really felt like we were all sitting back in the coffee shop, just shooting the about our partners and about how we love them and how they love us. So I really hope that you get something from this episode. And I feel like I didn't really get an opportunity to answer some of these questions myself, just in case you were curious about my answers. I know Meg and Em really answered these questions beautifully. So I thought I would take some time and share my own views since I am the money coach, the money expert here on this podcast. I hope that you come here to listen to me. Talk a little bit as well. So I'm just going to go through some of the questions that I asked them and give you some of my insight-some of my feedback.

The first question that I wanted to address is the question that says, what do you see most in your clients surrounding money and claiming their embodied feminine. For my clients, it is so difficult and so imbalanced to claim their money empowerment. So a lot of times I'll see if the woman in the relationship or the feminine presenting person in the relationship is making more money than their partner. They downplay their success. They literally will lie or make excuses or shrug off compliments that they get from their peers, from their family, even from their partner directly, sometimes. And this was hard for me in the beginning, making my own money from doing something completely my own. That was my own child. That was my own project and not making money from somebody else. It's- it's different. You know, like when you're employed by a job, yes, you're doing your own work.

Yes, you're doing your own thing and you are getting paid for your skills and services, but there's something about getting paid for something that's purely yours. That can be so triggering and a fronting that makes us, want to retreat and go into this hole and hide it? I don't know, because we're embarrassed by our success? Or we- you don't want to outshine our partner. We don't want to bring too much attention to ourselves as women. It's hard to take up space because we're constantly told how too much we are, how too loud we are, how too bright and colorful we are, how much we're wearing too much makeup, or gained too much weight, or are making too much money, or aren't doing enough for the people in need? We're either doing too much or not enough. So it's really difficult for a lot of my clients to step into that whole-hearted confidence around the success in their businesses. And if you feel that way, I'd love for you to send me a voice memo through Anchor or even through Instagram and tell me what it is that you're feeling. Tell me... is it embarrassment? Is it fear of taking up space? Is it fear of emasculating your partner and making them feel ashamed of their own, either lack of success or I don't know what it is, but there are so many different reasons. It's so complicated.

In my own relationship, I don't know if it's obvious, I was going to say obviously, but I'm trying to remove that word from my vocabulary. I am the organizer, the handler of the money. I am the one who has the thumb on the pulse of our finances, who knows where everything's going, who knows all the passwords, all of that kind of stuff. I'm constantly checking our bank accounts. And my husband is more than happy, more than willing, to pass that responsibility onto me. But it's something that is out of the norm when it comes to gender roles in heterosexual relationships. Normally, it's the man who's making the most money, It's the man who's managing the money. Maybe not even necessarily controlling the money, but managing the money. Knowing when the bills are getting paid, all of that kind of stuff. And it's hard for me because I see our women, our moms, our feminine presenting people, being the house managers, being the calendar organizers, taking care of the kids, making sure the groceries- and the pantry is stocked with groceries, and making sure the doctor's appointments are booked, and the school is organized all of that kind of stuff.

Making sure that the backpacks and the lunches and all of that stuff that is like background organization, house management, plus they have a job or plus they're running their own businesses. And I think that the money kind of gets lumped into that sometimes. It does for me in my relationship, and it's something that we've had to address before. Is that I am the house manager, as well as the bookkeeper accountant. I also file our taxes. I also organize the landscapers and meet the house cleaner when they come. And I also have my own coaching business. I'm not trying to put down men. I'm not trying to say that they're not enough. All I'm trying to say is that women are usually expected, assumed, to have all of the organization, all the cleaning, all of that kind of stuff, taken care of. And it's very rarely put on the men.

I'm not saying that they don't have their own jobs, they don't have their own responsibilities, but it's important to know that your relationship gets to be a partnership. And even if you're in a poly relationship, that also gets to be a partnership, an equal partnership. And definitely play in your zones of genius, figure out what it is that you both love to be doing. My husband and I both hate cleaning. And for a long time, I made that mean something about myself. I made that mean that I wasn't a good woman. I wasn't a good housekeeper. I wasn't a good homemaker because I hated cleaning and my house was always a mess, and it was always cluttered. And I beat myself up for that, for that characteristic for such a long time. And then I was like, you know what, no more I'm going to hire somebody to help me because I was beating myself up.

There was more anxiety, more shame, going into the thought of not having a tidy house then there was pride in my home and love in my home. So I just decided that I was not going to do that anymore. So I hired a house cleaner and Yvonne comes once a month, but every two weeks now, because we're trying to sell our house, but she has just been a godsend. And every single time she comes, I tell her, I am so thankful for you. I am so grateful for you. I appreciate you so much for coming into my home and making it feel the way I've always wanted it to feel, but have never had the inspiration to make it feel that way. So that's kind of one of the ways I bring in a rich mindset into my life.

I recently have been super into outsourcing and hiring people. I love the idea of making my house a little ecosystem as Meg calls it in this interview, a microcosm because I get to support people who do these things for a living. Landscapers, personal chefs, house cleaning services, personal assistants. All of these people, I get to create a micro-economy in my house and pay people to make my life easier while also helping them pay their bills, helping them put food on the table for their families. Like that gets me so fucking excited. So honestly, that's gonna be my goal over the next six months, is to make my business successful enough so that I can create a micro-economy within my house, within my business. Paying VA's, paying copywriters, and podcast managers, and all of these things. Like having my own little economy is so exciting. I really hope that I'm not the only one that's geeking out about this right now because it is making me so lit up. I hope that was an acceptable little tangent. So I'm going to just answer one more of these questions.

Honestly, like I asked them maybe five or six out of the 20 questions that I had lined up and I've just got to have them on another episode because the rest of these are just as juicy. So the, one other thing that I wanted to address was the question, "Do you think it's more acceptable for women to be in their masculine than it is for men to be in their feminine?" I would answer that question with a resounding yes. It is way more acceptable and expected for women, to be in their masculine, for women to be working nine to five, having everything organized, having everything, just the details down to a T, and to reject their emotions, to reject their intuition. We expect women to not be so flighty. Don't be so emotional. Keep that shit in check. Don't PM's. Don't make my life harder because of your hormone bullshit. And yet for men to be in their feminine is so embarrassing. It's embarrassing for the people around them, for their families, for their dads, for their partners. I'm not saying that that's how I feel, I'm saying that it's the norm. It's the standard for men to be in their masculine and for women to be in their masculine and that nobody's allowed to be in their feminine. Nobody's allowed to listen to their intuition.

So you'll hear in this interview, we talk about watching our men cry and how touching and moving it is to see your man cry. And I realized there's a lot of heteronormative language in this podcast episode, and I'll be doing more Queer-centric, podcast episodes in the future, but this one is definitely for my cis-gendered, heteronormative. people. Nothing is wrong with that, but I also hope that all my Queer folks out there get something from this too, because I think it can be enlightening to be in your feminine. So back to what I was saying was that for women to be in their feminine, for men to be in their feminine is un-encouraged because femininity is too much emotion. It's not grounded enough. It's too ethereal, there's no substance, it's not scientific enough. These are all the things that I think of. And that I've been programmed from the patriarchy to believe about my own femininity. And this is kind of my own veiled, misogyny, and patriarchy that I have inside of me. That those words, those feelings toward femininity come up immediately when I think of my own femininity, that I have to reign it in. And here's another thing about being safe in your feminine body is that we have to reign in our feminine curves. We can't be too sensual. We can't show too much skin. I can't even leave my house in shorts and a tank top to go on a walk without the fear of being catcalled. I literally have to think about every single time I leave the house, do I feel like fielding cat calls today? Do I feel like dealing with men and their misogyny today? And if the answer is no, I better be putting something baggy on.

And here's the kicker is that that's not always guaranteed to keep them away. Like I'm thinking of the specific experience that I had. I was tripping mushrooms a few weeks ago and I really wanted to go on a walk. I really wanted to get my body moving and it was hot. It was hot as Satan's balls outside. And all I wanted to do was wear my bike shorts and a tank top. I wanted to be free. I wanted to feel the wind on my skin. I was tripping like I wanted to be one with nature, `but the fear, the spiral of am I willing to deal with men today convinced me to not go out. I didn't want to deal with it. I could not have dealt with it in the state that I was in. And that was really sad for me.

That was really sad that I had to think about that before I left the house in my own neighborhood, in my own community. Did I want to have to think about bringing my personal protection equipment? My mace? My knife with me to protect myself because I would be out in the world alone. The answer to that was no. So I ended up not going out. I still had a great time, but I know it would have been more enjoyable if I had been out in nature. That was another tangent. I hope that makes sense.

So, yeah, before I ramble on for too much longer, I really do want to get into this episode because it is so juicy. And if you have any questions for Meg or for me, or for Emily, please send them through in a voice memo on Anchor. That will be linked in the show notes. You can also send them through on Instagram and with your permission, I will add them to the podcast intro of the next one, and possibly answer your question there.

And before I let you go, I want to read a five-star review that we got on the podcast. This is from Jane Jane Bear, and it says "Great perspective. Megan has a wonderful perspective on money management that brings in her own sacred relationships with herself and energy and invites those listening to cultivate and be aware of their own relationships. She's also very kind and willing to connect over on her Instagram… recommend. “ Thank you so much, Jane.

And if you'd like to leave me a review head over to iTunes, that link is also in the show notes. And I just love you so much. Follow me on Instagram. My handle is @sacrednumbersco, all one word. And also I've opened enrollment for the Sacred Money Method. I'll catch you on the other side with a little bit about the Sacred Money Method. Okay. Bye.

SMM PROMO:

This episode of the Sacred Wealth Podcast is brought to you by the Sacred Money Method. The Sacred Money Method is my signature, high-touch, one-on-one, 12-week coaching program that leads intuitive service providers to financial freedom. We are going to transform your money mindset, improve your spending habits, feminize your business processes, implement systems such as profit first, and lastly, destroy debt.

This program is unlike any other and truly combines the spiritual with the practical. This is not just a manifestation program. It is so much more powerful than that. We touch on mindset because it is so important to have a positive and healthy relationship with money. But we also focus a lot on inspired and aligned action. I have opened up enrollment and there are limited spots available. So go to the link in the show notes to apply for the next round beginning August 3rd, 2021. And I have included a sliding scale of pricing options. So check out the SMM Info Page linked in the show notes as well.

I look forward to helping you become rich unapologetically.

Meaghan Wall:

Welcome back to the Sacred Wealth podcast everybody. I have Meg Sullivan here and Emily Hazel, and we're going to be talking today about gender roles and money. I'm going to have each of these beautiful women introduce themselves individually and give us a quick background on what they do, the magic they give to the world, and yeah, take it away. Em, let's start with you.

Emily Hazel:

Hi everybody. I'm the founder of Fempire, which is a business mystery school. I'm obsessed with magic and self-mastery and manifestation. So this ripples out into every offering that I curate, mostly for pussy powered people. And I'm mostly here for the pleasure and the play and the prosperity of it all. So everything I do imbues this quality and I'm so stoked to be here today, Meaghan. Thank you for having me.

Meaghan Wall:

I am actually in Fempire right now, loving every minute of it. And I have just gotten so many takeaways. I wish I could join the live calls more, but they're like 10 o'clock at night and my bedtime is like 8:30. So I'm like pushing it to make it. But all right Meg, let's hear from you.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Hi. Hi. Hi, thank you for having me today. So I am a pleasure, intimacy, and relationship coach. And the main foundation of my work is supporting women to remember, remember the turned-on, juiced-up human, that they are born to be. And to remind them that that isn't about them becoming anything other than what they already are. Yeah. The remembering and reclamation is really the work I do with women and that spirals out in pleasure, relationships, intimacy, money, business, all of it. But the main real foundation of my work too is embodiment. I'm a big believer that embodying work is the work we're here to do. We can't experience deep change and transformation from the shoulders up. It is- the body, is the portal.

Meaghan Wall:

Absolutely. It's something that I've come to learn the hard way. You can't just sit and think about all of your shit. You got to actually move through it, embody it, and the body always remembers. So. All right, well thank you both. I'd love to just hop right in. So my first question, okay. Let's talk a little bit about my inspiration behind this topic. So I find that a lot of my clients have quite a deep conditioning around what their roles are supposed to be in the home as far as money. And a lot of women feel misaligned if they're in a relationship with a man and if they are the main breadwinners, if they're the "heads of the household", quote, unquote, this very masculine stereotype.

They feel out of alignment with themselves. It makes them feel achy. It makes them feel weird. They don't know how to place themselves in their household and in their relationships with their partners. So I know Meg and Em are constantly breaking down those masculine paradigms in the patriarchal world. So I was really curious to get their feedback and their points of view, as two strong bad-ass women in heterosexual relationships with men, who actually work together and do lots of transformational work with other men. So my first question is how have you navigated being in a relationship with a man and being such a strong woman? So I want to hear from Meg first.

Meg O'Sullivan:

I love this question. You know, my partner Jacob and I have been together for nearly seven years. And I would say it was quite easy for me at first because he was very much a "yes man". The first three, four years of our relationship, he was a "yes man". And I think we'll dive deeper into this, but I think that was one of the results for him of living in a patriarchal world and feeling like, "I've got to say yes to my woman. And I can't control her because look at all the shit men have done to women. And I don't want to be a part of that." So yeah, he was such a "yes man". And I kind of walked all over him for the first years of our relationship. So it was quite easy for me to be really strong and, yeah, really asking for what I want.

He made that very easy. And so I feel like the biggest challenge in our relationship, we got to a point maybe three years in, where I started to really resent him for saying yes all the time. And it was one huge conversation we had, a few years ago now, where I'd asked him for something and he kind of just said, yes. And I was like, "I don't want you to just say what you think I want you to say. I don't want you to just say what you think I need to hear or want to hear. I want to hear what you mean and I want to feel you."

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Meg O'Sullivan:

I don't want a "yes man", I want a man living in truth and I want to feel you. And so that was a huge shift in our relationship. And so I think it's, it's been the last half of our relationship where he's been really stepping up and owning his truth and speaking more his mind and maybe sharing when things aren't feeling good to him, which means inconvenient for me sometimes. So I think that's where the big challenge has come, him kind of like stepping into his power and taking up space in our relationship, which at the same time has created much more polarity and sexual chemistry. And I'm so much more turned on by him when he is stepping into his power and asking for what he wants.

Meaghan Wall:

Love that. Em, would you like to speak that question?

Emily Hazel:

Yes. Oh my gosh. I'm such a huge believer in that our life is a result of the stories we tell ourselves and the narratives that, not only were rewriting but the ones that we're choosing and really claiming. And so for me, each relationship is an invitation to raise my standards. And then when I've been in that relationship every month, every week, every day is a new invitation to raise the standards because then life meets you there, right? So when another person is involved, it means that I'm not only just climbing and choosing what I want, but I have to meet life or him there too. And show up in the same way that I expect life or the men to. And that's the work for me, right? Is I'm so committed to having standards and non-negotiables around my relationships, which means that I attract men that can meet me there, and otherwise it falls apart.

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Emily Hazel:

And not hold space for anything less because I'm not holding space for anything less within myself, which means I'm devoted. I'm showing up. I'm making the hard choices, knowing when to drop the sword, knowing when I need to soften versus be strong, knowing when. We had conflict recently and it's like this dance in between wanting to be the mother and the nurturer and the lover, versus knowing when to be a sassy, savage, spicy part of me, that's like, "No, no, this, isn't going to fly anymore. Meet me here, or don't." And as much as the fire in me wants to be in that place all the time, it's this constant unraveling for me to know that strength is also softness and that my real strength comes from that place too, of how much I can love. How much I can be unconditional in the partnership and hold space for its becoming rather than its need to be perfect, right?

Emily Hazel:

Because that's only a reflection of where I'm pressuring myself to be. So to summarize that I believe women need to set way better standards for themselves and what they tolerate and what they even attract. I was having coffee recently with a friend who's almost 40 and she was so in awe about my relationship with Jack. And I'm just like, these things are a non fucking negotiable. Like compassion or hearing me or consideration are standards, those things aren't bonuses. So yeah, I feel like the strength, being a strong woman means having a set of standards that reflect your self-worth and meeting yourself there first.

Meaghan Wall:

Can you each speak a little bit on what it's like to go from being the strong woman and feeling like you want to run all over your man or walk all over your man and be like, "No, my way or the highway." Because I feel like, as women, we get what we want, regardless of the way we get it. Does that make sense? Like there's an understanding in the world, you know, "happy wife, happy life" kind of thing that if the wife is happy, they won't be nagging. They won't be making you mad or anything. So I want to know how do you move from getting your way to being in the water of your chart and being soft?

Meg O'Sullivan:

It's so good. I love that. I feel like when I am in that sassy energy Em just spoke about, when I am pushing Jacob's buttons and just being in that sassy energy, I think that what's beneath that is an ache for Jacob to take me to that place. For Jacob to support me to surrender. For Jacob to really hold the space for me to deeply soften. And so almost that sassiness is kind of like an invitation to him like, "Can you fucking take me there. Jacob calls me the dragon sometimes he's like, "You just get in this dragon energy."

Meaghan Wall:

I'd love to know. What does it look like when Jacob takes you there? What is the conversation? What is the action?

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yes. Okay. So really, Jacob and I play a lot in the work of like polarity. We very much relate to the masculine and feminine dynamics, him playing the masculine role more in our relationship. That being like the unwavering mountain energy, the one that is the mountain. When I get to be the chaos and the feminine non-linear being that is the dragon. Right?

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Meg O'Sullivan:

And so he's very much clear that he comes alive and his spiritual assignment in our relationship is to grow and practice strengthening his nervous system. And my dragon is the invitation to him to strengthen his nervous system and for him to be able to hold more, not run, but like stay unwavering when I am just a complete volcano.

Meaghan Wall:

Facing the fire.

Meg O’Sullivan

Yes. And this is a lot of what Jack and Jacob teach like because we live in this age of comfort, a lot of heterosexual men, like that’s too hard. It's easier to just give the woman what she wants instead of actually standing and being willing to take the woman to the place she wants to go or needs to go, to that place of softness, to that place of him really holding her. So in terms of what that looks like, circling back to your question, it takes many forms. Like sometimes Jacob will use humor. So maybe I am being sassy. It happened this morning like I was just being a bit mean to him. And he was like, "Oh, you're in your dragon energy or he'll come over and tickle me and be like, "Oh, the dragons out." He's really great at using humor, instead of shaming me for being in that energy or making me feel wrong. It's always just like, "Okay, let's play.

Meaghan Wall:

Love that.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Other times, he doesn't feel humor is appropriate for that moment, he would more use that deep anchored energy. He might come over, wrap his arms around me and just be like, "I got you. You're allowed to fall apart right now." Or he'll tell me, he'll come and like see that I'm distracting myself. You know, when we're in that highly strong energy, all we want as women is to just fucking like fall apart, but we're watching Netflix or spending too many hours on our computer or just like running from it. Jacobs really fucking great at seeing that. So he'll come and he'll like, and this takes so much trust in a man, right? Self-trust, to be able to come into the space where the dragon is living and be like shut the fucking laptop and be like, "You're done."

Emily Hazel:

That's the piece I would like to add is depending on your love languages, again, the stock standard conversations I believe we need to be having in the early days of dating to really test alignment. Because in these moments, when things get tricky, when things get uncomfortable, it's as Meg said, always this invitation to surrender to the layer deeper. And that's the real desire of all intimacy. It's not to play on this surface-level playground it's to go deeper than that and actually feel what's there.

So for example, some of the ways that Jack could fill in those gaps for me, whether I'm angry or sad or stressed, again, it's up to him being so dialed into his own intuition and his own body, which is a whole other podcast in itself. For men to learn that language of the self and then decide, "Is this the time where I need to say sorry? Is this the time where I need to take her outside and we need to get in the car and go on a trip? Is this where we just need to sit on the floor and look at each other? Is this where I just take her and I grab her hair and I fuck her?" You know, like it's so dependent on those energies playing together. And I love what Meg said about bringing the levity to it as well because I think that's the greatest healer of all.

Meaghan Wall:

Oh, I love that. So my next question is, do you guys have any traditional views on the roles of men and women in heterosexual relationships?

Emily Hazel:

I love cleaning.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Do you? I was gonna say, I like always rebelled against them, not even consciously, just cause I'm a grub.

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Meg O'Sullivan:

I moved in with Jacob like five years ago and it was straight out of home. Like I was living with my parents and my mom did everything for me and then Jacob did everything for me. Up until two years ago, Jacob was doing all of our laundry, like everything.

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Meg O'Sullivan:

That's just what he did. I didn't even realize. And so that was, I think, from the beginning of our relationship, I don't know, our relationship has always been flipped in that way that he's, and again, we can go deeper into this, but Jacob was always taught growing up that you serve a woman. His mom always told him, "You serve a woman." And so he did it from a place of, "this is what I should be doing," not necessarily, "I want to do this" or "this feels good in my body." So it's actually been like this beautiful unlearning in the last few years of teaching him, I don't want a fucking servant like I want a king.

Meaghan Wall:

First few years of your relationship, Meg was just sitting on the couch with her feet up.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Literally.

Meaghan Wall:

Watching TV.

Meg O’Sullivan:

Literally. But I don't really subscribe to how gender roles have to look, like in the 3d. But for me, it's more like the energetics. And again, it's different for everyone, but for Jacob and I, and then what we teach the people who really resonate with this work, is again like its polarity. It's this play of the masculine and feminine. So for me, I like being the surrendered one in the relationship, the one that submits. And Jacob loves being the one that penetrates and the one that brings his consciousness. So that can show up anyway in like the roles we play in terms of cleaning, bringing in money, all of these things. But it's like energetically doing the things we spoke about before. Jacob being the one that really holds the energetic space of our relationship, really holds that unwavering space. And the role I play, as the feminine, is always being the Oracle for our relationship, like being the intuitive one. I see. I tune into when I see he's out of alignment and he's not in integrity. I tune into when I need to speak up about that.

Meaghan Wall:

I love that word, in Oracle. Yeah.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yeah. And also in the feminine, like our job, again, if you subscribe to this, your job as the feminine is to speak whatever is alive in you. That is your medicine for the relationship. Any time you hold something within, that builds resentment. That clogs up the space between you and your partner. So our medicine for the relationship is the feminine, is to speak whatever is alive in us. So there more of the things I subscribe to, not specifically gender, but more like those energetic dynamics.

Meaghan Wall:

Em, would love to hear from you because just for the audience. So Em's relationship is relatively new with Jack and Meg and Jacob have been together for seven years, like she mentioned. So I just love seeing the differences between where y'all are at, in your relationship.

Emily Hazel:

I've had some practice with other men before this one. Yeah. My response I guess, historically, that strength has been very confronting because I've selected men where I was the masculine because that's what was safe for me. So in the past, I've dated very feminine, creative, arty, wishy-washy, floppy men. My mom likes to call them "snags," sensitive new-age guys. And when I did a lot of fucking rewriting of that shit, after my big breakup from my six-year relationship, I realized I didn't want that anymore because my feminine heart like needed to soften, it wanted to soften. And the men that I would then have to be attracting in would have to be totally different. Right? So that takes a lot of courage. And for any feminine essence creatures listening to this or those who identify as female or feminine, it requires a lot of courage to be able to hold yourself first so that you can let someone hold you. Okayness with your emotional nature, which I was not for a really long time.

I was so avoidant of it. And so that you can be seen, truly seen, cause that's what you're wanting anyway. That's what you're craving. But so often I was recreating the same wounding. That was my original wounding, right? Through relationships. Oh my gosh. This only changed because I realized my last relationship, I was dating my dad. And that, that healed so much cause I was like, "Oh, now I'm being the little girl that I've never got to be able to be in a relationship before because I was always the cock. Now I'm the little girl. Now I'm like the soft, mushy, maiden lover. And still couldn't be met because there was such a pressure to have that healed, rather than choosing to make that for myself. So how the gender roles play out, it's always a contemplation of, "What am I needing?" Like, "What do I most need? What's important to me? Where do I actually come alive? Where do I thrive?" And these were conversations I had with Jack before moving in, very quickly. We were together only three months before we moved in together, which is pretty insane, but something in me trusted it.

And this can look really simple. You know, because these are complex and layered conversations, where it's always changing. If you're committed to transformation or committed to evolution, it's always changing. And so I invite anybody that's looking to this to not become attached or rigid with what they know about their roles. And to, like Meg said, play more on the energetics and have this constant check-in of like, "Is this working for you? Is this turning you on?" When we moved in together, I was like, "You know what, darling, I hate doing floors. Like that's not my zone of genius. I will keep everything super tidy. I create a beautiful space. I like candles. There's incense. I bring beauty to a space, but I will never look at the floor. Are you turned on by that?" And he's like, "Fuck yeah. I'll sweep."

You know, and that's how easy it is. Instead of witnessing my parents, their entire marriage, fight about who's taking the bin out tonight. It's like, why don't you just have the conversation about what works for you? And when everybody knows their place, like when the feminine knows. We all need this, right. It's why school grounds have fences. Like the kids could jump over the fence, right, and leave the playground, but the fence makes them feel safe cause they know where the boundary is. We're all just little kids. We need to know our place, where the fence is. And if that no longer is working for us, we can have those conversations of, "Oh, you know, I'm adding a little bit more income now, what does that mean for our cleaning needs? You know, what does that mean for the nutrition that we invest in every week?

Meaghan Wall:

Before we move on, I want to just kind of point out the theme here that I see that you guys are both talking about, a give and take of fire in your relationship. It's not that one of you is the feminine and one of you is the masculine. It is that you take turns moving in and out of the feminine and the masculine, whether or not to meet the other with softness or to meet the other with strength and a solid ground. So yeah, I love that. I love that you both were kind of speaking into, and I love that both of your men are active in the work or active in the realm of inner transformation. Because I think it makes it easier to have the conversations, not easier, simpler to have the conversations. Because you both know that they need to happen, but the fire is still going to be there. So I'd love to know what type of conversations have you had to have with your partners around veiled misogyny or patriarchy, or even with yourselves of internalized misogyny and patriarchy, within your own relationships.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Do you want to go first?

Emily Hazel:

Oh, this is a big one because I find- I was just talking to my roommate, who's male, about this podcast this morning and he's like, "Oh, what are your thoughts on that?" And I can get into my fire and spice pretty quickly and knowing when to soften because the patriarchal way of being is not sustainable for any of us. So it's not a conversation about men. And I find that this is about delivery and invitation rather than like just dropping it on someone with blame or shame. It's more about, as my teacher, Victoria Redbard, in the course that I'm studying right now with new paradigm intimacy, she talks about running your emotions on the vertical current, rather than on the horizontal plane. When we're talking about patriarchy or misogyny on the horizontal plane, it looks like "BLAH," it looks like the spraying out and people can feel it on them, right? Whereas running vertical is, I take responsibility for my response in my body and I allow myself to heal it and do what's necessary in my external environment to be able to be held safely in that.

So what this looks like, with Jack and I, if I have something that I need to say that it might be about objectifying a woman's body or an image on Instagram of saying, or, Oh my God, it's so many different things. I will first ask permission to say, "Can you help me with this? This really triggered me." It might not even have anything to do with him. It might've been an experience I've witnessed outside in the world and I've come home and I'm fuming. And I'm like, "UGH," I want to recode my relationship to the masculine, using him as the proof. Using him as the proof of the new way. So Robert Augustus Masters also talks about this a lot. When you're having a trigger response to something on how to have a conscious rage and whether the man can hold you in that, creates the safety in your nervous system to be like, "Oh, it's not like this blanket generalization, I'm safe"

Yeah. And this is healing that really ancient programming. So I find that way to be much more of a gentle lubricated way to connect on these really hard topics that, inherently, if you're talking about men or you're talking about the patriarchy, you're talking about male and masculinity. Of course, there would be a remnant of defense, right? Defensiveness that comes up of like, "Oh, she must be talking about me," in the same way that if someone was to talk about the feminine and you identify as that, you'd be like, "Oh, like, where's that in me?" And this is the work. This is the brave work to step into the arena together and be like, "Oh no. Where has that played out within us? Where am I actually perpetuating those patriarchal wounds in me and can take responsibility for that first and foremost?" Cause that's all I can ever really do. And then invite whoever's with me, whether it's the relationship, partnership, family, friends, to jump on board the new paradigms train and be like, "Hey, equality, sustainability, freedom, justice, right?

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah. I mean, I've definitely been there in high school and perpetuating the slut archetype and gossiping about women. And referring to someone who may be overweight or more voluptuous, "She could be so pretty if she just lost weight." Or, you know, these very internalized misogynistic views of female attractiveness and looks. And before I started my own spiritual journey, it was all about the competition between women and making sure that I was building myself up while putting others down. And I think that's one of the biggest ways, that I see in my own clients, that misogyny kind of plays out. But, yeah. Meg, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the types of conversations you've had with Jacob and maybe even yourself around patriarchy and misogyny.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yeah. What's coming through for me is I don't think there's ever been intentional conversations, but it's almost like our relationship is, you know, like a microcosm of the macrocosm. And I see our relationship as a platform, a space, a playground to heal and be seen in some of these things, like what you shared before. And it's like, one of the most healing things for me is when I am, you know, triggered, when something is like coming through my body, is just having Jacobs there to witness. And so I think that's probably the biggest piece I want to offer here is that I mean, it's not necessarily about those like, I love that horizontal plane. We've had lots of conversations around what it means to be a woman and walking down the street, what that feels like, versus what that would feel like to Jacob. And yeah, where like he holds me and those kinds of things.

And we've had plenty of conversations around that, but I feel like, on a day-to-day basis, it's more how I invite him to see me in my pain. How willing I am for him to see me in my hurt. Maybe it's the sexual trauma I'm carrying from the lineages I've come from. Maybe it's as I'm stepping deeper into my sexuality and sensuality, all of those things that are arising. Like that's the biggest piece for me. It's allowing you to witness me in that. Like, that's more powerful for me than a conversation. He's feeling it. He's seeing me in it. Right? And he's holding that, and he's learning how to hold that, and be with that, and witness me in that. And I think, this is something else I wanted to bring, that a huge thing to me on this journey as well is learning that also the patriarchy has fucked men up.

Emily Hazel:

Yeah. We were talking about this morning.

Meg O'Sullivan:

And like I've wanted so deeply to hold Jacob or to really realize that fuck, our men have been taught it's so deeply unsafe to feel. And it's so deeply unsafe to be in their expression. And it's so deeply unsafe to be witnessed feeling deeply and having emotion.

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Meg O'Sullivan:

So, yeah. Like again, it's this beautiful like-

Emily Hazel:

Permission.

Meg O'Sullivan:

In this microcosm of relationships, it's, yeah. I feel like my work or what I chose to step up and do is just really remind Jacob that it's safe to feel and that he's not going to be ostracized from our relationship. I'm not going to shame him for feeling that it's a really safe space and he'll also be celebrated for feeling and being his emotions. So I don't know if that really answers the question, but I feel like for me it's, it's more just-

Emily Hazel:

Like practice.

Meg O'Sullivan:

We show, yeah, how we're embodied in this. It's not necessarily a conversation, it's how we're using our body and our energy each day to be with each other.

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Emily Hazel:

Yeah. Can I add something final to that, that's very practical? Like a way that I do this for Jack is, exactly, creating safety around, not just feeling but around rest, pleasure. And we're moving the pressure of those gender roles when it does come to money, or when it does come to housework or sex. And offering the permission. I mean, we've had these moments where like he's held my hand and cried and he's like, "No woman has ever seen me in this way." Or, "No woman has ever told me to get up off the couch." Or I've said to him very early, "Like wherever you're at in your bank accounts doesn't scare me, wherever you're at in whatever like if we didn't have sex for two weeks, I'm not making that mean something about your masculinity."

I'm not making that mean something about my femininity. Like all of these things that traditionally in, let's say unconscious relationships, heteronormative relationships, these are all the conflicts that occur on a daily basis. Sex, money, housework, right? Rest and pleasure. It's like this breeding ground for laziness, shame, name-calling, wrong. And that festers and perpetuates how the patriarchy is unsustainable for all of us. And so my invitation to women, for their men, is to make it safe for them to not only feel emotions but to enjoy themselves. To have a break to trust when they need to rest. To take care of them in a way that's not coming from like, "I gotta take care of my man, cause I'm a housewife." More like, "How can I seduce him in sensual pleasure right now?" Because he might not have ever allowed himself to feel that.

Meaghan Wall:

So beautiful. I love, Meg, what you said about the microcosm and the playground of your relationship. Because I think that witnessing is so much more powerful than just having words in a conversation. So our men witnessing us being strong and seeing who we are as women and wanting to relate to us. Not in a way, because I feel like men have always had these terrible role models. I'm thinking specifically of like early 2000's movies, like Euro Trip. And like where the whole men's goal was to get laid, like the whole time. And he was doing everything he could to get laid. And I know, my husband specifically, has felt this pressure of, "If I'm not horny 24/7, what does that say about me? What does that say about my masculinity? What does that say about my relationship with my wife or my girlfriend?" Whoever it is. And at the same time, before I started watching porn before I started masturbating, I felt like if my man was watching porn, what does that say about me? What does that say about me being able to hold down my man or keep my man interested in me? It's a polarization where we're encouraged to literally repel each other and be against each other. 

Emily Hazel:

Yes. On Purpose.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yeah. And all we want to do is be, like every human just wants to be witnessed, and seen, and heard, and truly understood. And I think if we can bring that energy into a relationship and look at that, again, as the microcosm. Like yes, the dynamics of men, and women, and the patriarchy, and all of these things are happening in a macrocosm. But if we can just bring, we can even just off all the labels and just go, "Okay, I'm in partnership with this person. Can I just help them feel as seen, as heard, and understood as possible? Really when we get down to it, that's it, right?

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah. It kind of blew my mind how many emotions my husband has. I was always brought up to understand men as one level. Like very focused and they either wavered too angry or they wavered too funny. There wasn't much in between. So whenever I started to witness my husband in his full spectrum of human emotion, I was literally shocked because he would cry. And I was like, I've literally never seen a man cry before, except for, you know, like on TV or something. But never in my presence have I felt and held a man as he cried. And that was earth-shattering for me.

Meg O'Sullivan:

And so deeply, like such medicine that we can offer our men. Like, if we are heterosexual women, like that is such fucking medicine. And I'm the same, you shared before about how Jack is, you've been in an experience and he's been like, "no woman has ever held me like that before." And I still, even this week, Jacob was moving through something and I was like wanting to touch him and nurture him as he was in an emotion. And he was like, "Can you feel my whole body contracting?" He's like, "You could feel that, right?" He's like, "So much of me can't receive this."

Meaghan Wall:

Wow.

Meg O'Sullivan:

All of these stories and I'm not the one that receives.

Emily Hazel:

And don't let them see your weakness.

Meg O'Sullivan:

All the layers and the shields and, yeah, it's such beautiful medicine we can bring to our partners to show up and be willing to hold them.

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah. That kind of leads me to my next question. And this is more of like a yes or no question is, do you think it's more acceptable for women to be in their masculine than it is for men to be in their feminine?

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yeah.

Emily Hazel:

Yes. Again, on purpose. Because I think what the patriarchy has done is oppress women's magic as the Oracle because then she can be controlled. Right? And that's where all those toxic masculine qualities come from. Whenever I'm talking about the patriarchy or these general statements, it's about the toxic expression of the masculine, not the clean and pure and divine expression of the masculine. Yeah. I think we're trained to be in that so that we can keep the corporate machine rolling.

Because if you have a woman that's connected to her cyclic superpowers, Meaghan, I know you know this about me. But I teach scheduling with your menstrual cycle because this is how the feminine harnesses her gifts, as a reflection of nature herself, which is in seasons. And when we're operating in a patriarchal world, those seasons are taken away into an endless summer, where we don't know when to stop farming. We don't know when to stop pillaging the land. We don't know when to stop taking. And so the balance, it becomes out of order and that's very profitable, right? That's very profitable.

Meaghan Wall:

Having men and women on the same wavelength, in the same cycle. Definitely, because there's no breaking.

Emily Hazel:

And the gift of a woman reclaiming her femininity and also making room for that in men is to have the masculine remember that he needs the feminine to survive. The masculine, which is symbolic of consciousness, is always looking to penetrate itself into form to experience the 3D. And the feminine is all that is right. The feminine is his nature herself. The feminine is home. And so without each other, the masculine can't exist. And I think that's where this resurgence of feminine power is coming from right now. Because the men are needing it. Because we know that this can't work long term. And there's a lot of very painful byproducts of this patriarchal way of being. So it's not necessarily, you know, becoming a matriarchal society around money, around these global, political climate, huge, huge things. But it's true. The feminine as the Oracle knows that we will self implode if we don't bring her back.

Meaghan Wall:

I am definitely trying to get my man, my husband, to work with one of y'all's men. I've shown him Jacob's site and I'm like, "Babe, you need this like, you need to tap in here."

Emily Hazel:

And how did that work for you?

Meaghan Wall:

It didn't, it didn't work.

Emily Hazel:

How much do you like being told what to do, right?

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Emily Hazel:

Yeah. That's a tricky one and a good point, right? The only way that we can inspire our men to jump on board and do the work if they're already not in their own capacity, is to lead by example and to show them the proof of how it works, right. Not lead with the conversation. Cause I mean, I dunno, I've been in the coaching industry for five, six years now, and my least favorite part of it is someone calling you forward into something that you are not ready to look at yet. I hate that. It's rooted in shame and saying, "You're not where you're meant to be, and you need to be better, and this isn't enough." Instead of becoming the magnet for the work that you want to be in the world and naturally gravitating people toward you that are like, "I want what she has because she's free. I want what she has because she's prosperous. She's turned on."

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Emily Hazel:

That's where I lead in to do the work. And no other place is inspiring for me to do the work. It actually makes me resent certain aspects. And so I bring that into the relationship by being like, "Okay, he's been stressed about money for three days now. That's really annoying cause I want to go out for a nice dinner." So how can I take the lead instead of being like, "Hey babe, there's this money meditation we should do together." It's like, how can I take the lead first by saying, "I just invested in this because it felt fun." Or, "I just took out a bunch of cash and we're creating a sex magic ritual over it and it's all over the bed. Will you join me? "

Meaghan Wall:

Beautiful. So we haven't actually talked about money at all yet. And here we are 50 minutes in. So I want to talk about money and as, Em, I know your income goal is massively expansive this year. And I know, from the outside looking in, you guys are both individually so successful and I know that you each have your own definitions of success. But, for me, looking at you both, you are my definition of success and you're on my mood board. So I'd love to know how you navigate, because both of your men are entrepreneurs as well, so you both have inconsistent incomes. And I assume, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume both of your incomes kind of fluctuate back and forth. Where one of you might make more one month, one of you might make less one month. So could you just speak into your relationship with money in your relationship?

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yeah. I'd love to go first because this is so present for me right now. So Jacob and I have been in business together for quite a few years. So I ran a network marketing business for about three or four years. And my goal in that was always to have him quit his job. Again, he was the "yes man" going, "Yeah okay, I'll come and like be in business with you. And so he quit his job and we were in that for a few years together. And then once I finished that up, about a year and a bit ago, we then started to do relationship work together and retreats together. So it was all very, very connected in our income. We always shared accounts for the last four or five years, everything was very codependent and it was very, just like intertwined. And it's only been, you know, in the last six to nine months where we've really separated.

We don't work together at all anymore. And that was a big thing at the beginning of this year. We separated everything. We decided to do no more offerings together, which has just been a big unraveling in itself. But yeah, I've wanted to then separate in our accounts and just make things really clean. And that has been bringing so much up. And at the same time, I've also started earning quite a lot more than him. I asked him before we came on this podcast like, "Am I okay to share everything?" He's like, "Yeah, of course." And he's been sharing like, even I signed two clients this week and I like doubled my one-on-one process. And I always come out and I just like shout like, "Oh my god!" And I've been doing a lot of "oh my gods" lately cause my business is just like really booming. And he's just been really real and been like, "I'm so celebrating you, but I also want you to know I'm so deeply insecure right now. Like I'm so deeply triggered."

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Because he's just in kind of a space of voiding his business at the moment as well, so that's been really interesting to navigate. But also just to bring like were so devoted to just communicating whatever is alive in us from a place of just realness and rawness, so that's been really beautiful. But another piece I just want to bring in is, because I've been doing a lot more than him and we all separating our accounts, I'm feeling this energy come up within me. And we've had many conversations around it of, I suddenly just want to keep all the money to myself. I'm like, "This is mine. You don’t get to touch it!" And that's been a really strange energy because there have been periods when he had a full-time job and I was just starting up a business, four or five years ago, where he supported me without question, without question.

And yeah, it's been really interesting to see those energies come up where I'm suddenly wanting to be like, "This is all mine don't you dare touch it." And we've been in fun conversations around that. So I think also a piece with those gender roles that we spoke about earlier, I think that I didn't realize that they were still alive in me. And this part of me, earning a lot more money, there does feel a part of me that something's out of balance. And I know that doesn't have to be true, but I'm just witnessing those stories and those energies arise in me and we're in deep conversation around it all. But I think it is a really interesting, yeah, really interesting experience. So yeah, that's really alive for us right now, in the world with money in our relationship.

Meaghan Wall:

I love that. Before we hear from Em, I want to point out that for those of us who do the work, it's never that we just don't have issues anymore. It's just that we're painfully more aware of them, more quickly. The bounce-back time between having a trigger, realizing what it is, and moving through it, gets to be shorter and it gets to be more fluid. It's never that things stop coming up. It's just that we get better at recognizing our shift.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yeah, definitely. And I think that's so true in relationships. I think there's this belief that there's the perfect relationship or the perfect partner for you and when you find that person, you're never going to fight and everything's just going to be so perfect.

Meaghan Wall:

How boring.

Meg O'Sullivan:

I know. What's the fucking point of that? Like relationships are spiritual assignments that are here to invite us into deeper levels of ourselves. And they're here to bring our shit up and trigger us, and trigger us into expansion, and trigger us into remembering. Yeah. So I think it's like a conscious relationship or an epic relationship isn't one without tension, it's just one that knows how to navigate it. And has the willingness to meet those moments instead of run or numb out from them.

Meaghan Wall:

Em, do you feel comfortable speaking into money?

Emily Hazel:

Yes. Oh my gosh. Only recently, have we really come to this place where I recognize that this old pattern of mine too, which is, I think in a way I've definitely had like the opposite in relationship. I've always been very separate, very taking care of myself, you know, had a job at 14. I haven't received a dollar from my parents. This like guardedness that I've got to make it happen, otherwise I won't be safe. And I traveled for six or seven years out of a bag and so it was up to me like, where was I going? What roof was I putting over my head? And this fierce independence to not rely upon any external abundance that was coming in, in the form of money. Right? You know, of course, there were other ways that I received abundance.

And so entering into a relationship with those same stories has been really interesting because, well, there's a lot of ease in the way we approach money, how it actually comes in and out of our lives, you know, whereas it might be groceries, or bills, and all that kind of stuff. It's, it's very "Even Stevens." My story, that I carry, is like, "Come on, like join me here. Join me here with how good I feel about money. Join me here about growth. Join me here about the place of freedom and wanting to do more and desiring more." And you know, I'll always want to travel and I've got a Taurus moon and I'm obsessed with luxury, and indulgence, and experience. And I have no problem investing in those things for myself. It's like such a core value of mine that I have never let money get in the way of me traveling the world. I have never let money get in the way of me having beautiful things.

And that's such a deep commitment in me, but not in my partner. Right? So again, it's this inviting rather than the force. And recently we invested in a money course together. And I have done this with every partner before, too, not really realizing that I was trying to change their money stories to be more like mine. And so as soon as we did this work together, like within a week, I was like, "Actually, this was gross. Cause I've just realized I'm trying to change you. And I'm trying to save you. And I'm trying to encourage you to be some way you're not. And that's really unfair and really gross. And I'm not here to save you, I'm here to love you and I'm here to trust you." And so calling that in myself, just naming that that's what was happening with the money work I wanted him to do and that my intention of doing it for myself was to take the lead.

But we like a sneaky little shadow intention, you know, as a.k.a. "fix your shit," was really unsexy. And so, you know, we had a chat about like, what that looks like moving forward. And I told him, "My work is I trust you. I trust you. You've lived 31 years without me, I trust that you're going to be okay. You've lived 31 years with money already, I trust in your capacity to develop a new relationship with money on your own terms at your own speed. And know that while we live together, while we share a life together, those needs will be covered." And that's kind of it at the moment. I don't know how we'll move forward through those kinds of things. I feel very comfortable having things quite separate because money is so energetic and ancestral and I don't really want anyone else's bullshit in mine, but we'll see.

Meaghan Wall:

Well, something that I literally learned from you on Monday and something that I passed on to a client today was that we are the Alchemists of the energy that comes at us. So you use the example of walking through the airport and you kind of feel like, "La la la. I just want to like get to where I'm going and like fuck everybody else." But you kind of said that wanting to be protected from other people's energy means that there's something to be protected from. And so I realized in that moment that I am the Alchemist of my money. So even if somebody were to send me money with negative intentions or bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, I get to decide what my money means to me and how it feels when I circulate it in my aura. So I am so intrigued, Meg, by you guys being co-mingled in your funds and now having separate bank accounts. Because I mean, it's just counterintuitive to everything you hear. You know, like as you progress in your relationship, you're supposed to combine finances, but that just intrigues the shit out of me. And I'm so curious,

Meg O'Sullivan:

Definitely still a work in progress right now. But yeah, I think I was really aching for a sense of like, sovereignty, and autonomy, and in that realm of life. And for all the time we had our joint bank account, we- we were only trying to survive in business. It's really been only in the last year where I'm deeply thriving in business. So it's suddenly new for me and I'm like, "Oh fuck, my money doesn't come in and then goes to all my bills.? I have money to play with now?" Well, I don't want to tell Jacob, "Hey, I'm going to go spend this on this. Is that okay?" even though it's my money. But if it's coming from the same account, it just feels like this "Can I have permission?" And every time I would ask him, he'd be like, "Stop asking me. I don't need to give you permission." But just the energy behind it was funny.

So just creating that clarity just feels so exciting. And who knows how long would it last or what will kind of move and shake and shift, but that feels really exciting. And just one thing I wanted to add as well, I loved that you said, Em, around like just trusting Jack. And that's also been coming up and it kind of links back to what we said before about giving men permission to rest and be in their emotions. And even at the moment, Jacob is completing a whole lot of things in his business, a lot of containers are coming to a close. And he doesn't have natural inspiration for something coming next, but he can see me creating, creating, earning, earning. And we've had conversations around this, that he feels like he should be matching that or meeting that.

Meaghan Wall:

I love that. The should. Fucking the should.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Uh-huh. And giving him permission to be like, "I trust you."

Emily Hazel:

And trust the season.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yeah. "I trust that like I've got us if you need like, I've got us, but like I trust you. You don't need to hustle now, I trust you."

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah. So beautiful. I love that. I felt defensive when you were talking, Em. Because I feel like, as someone who literally works on her money, every single minute, of every single day, I feel like I'm kind of, you know, dragging my husband along. Being like, "Hey, don't you want to think about money like this? Let me like Try to coach you a little bit on this." Or asking him questions and he's like, "Meaghan, stop trying to coach me." And I'm like, "Okay, fine. Sorry." But it's not always just all, "Okay, fine. Sorry." It's like just change, like do something different.

And so, yeah, it's a reminder for me because he's perfect in the way he is. And I don't want him to be anything other than who he is. Okay. So I want to really honor your time. And I only had an hour slotted for this podcast, which was dumb on my end because I knew it was going to be like, so jam-packed. So I just want to end on one question about sex and this is directed toward Meg, but I'd love to hear Em talk about it too. So you discussed activating your voice during sex to communicate what you want. So I'd love to know, describe your process behind activating your voice and communicating what you want through guided embodiment and how this can be used to get what you want financially.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Oh, I love that. Well, I'm going to start with, I really believe how we fuck is how we do life. So again, the bedroom is like this microcosm of what's happening on the macrocosm about life. So if we're not speaking our needs, say our partners I don't know going down on us, and we wish she was going a little harder or like softer or a little to the left. And when not speaking that, that is for sure showing up in other areas of our life, you know, like our clients and crossing boundaries or like doing something and we have a need that we want to speak out and we're just, we're just not. And so for me, like my journey with this is, oh my gosh, I was in relationships before Jacob, where I was so, so deeply terrified of speaking anything whilst I was having sex.

I don't think I ever said a word whilst having sex before really being maybe one partner before Jacob, but there was like this I'm not allowed. I'm not allowed to speak my needs. I'm not, I'm not allowed to share anything. And I even remember wanting to say things and things literally feeling like, that would just getting stuck in my throat. And I just didn't know how, like how, how do I even get this out? How do I even speak this? So for me again, in terms of like how I've moved through this, it's just been choosing it, you know, choosing it, practicing it. And yeah, like the container of my relationship with Jacob is incredibly safe and I've never felt so held and supported by a man before, so that helps. But again, like, what Em spoke to earlier that was because I chose that. That's because I didn't allow anything else into my field.

I didn't say yes to anything other than that. But yeah, if any women are struggling to speak up in the bedroom, I would just really invite them to notice when you feel a desire come alive or notice when something feels icky. Notice when anything is coming alive in your body. And then also notice the feeling of closing down, or shutting off, or not feeling that you have permission or allowed to speak that into the space, and practice just breathing into that, you know. Being with that, breathing that, noticing that. And then if it feels safe, enough practice saying that like leaning in, you know, we've got to jump off that cliff, right? Sometimes with the only way, there's no like, quick fix, or easy path to this, we've just got to fucking meet it. And yeah, and it's also like, we can look at this out of the bedroom as well.

It's like, let's look at boundaries with people. There's no quick, easy way to set a boundary with another human. Often it is a really courageous conversation that you've got to have that makes you want to vomit. But that's the point, that's the point it's like leaning in choosing that for yourself. So yeah, I would say it to feel that, to notice where all of those stories and all of those feelings come alive while you're having sex and then to choose to know that it's safe to use your voice and to just, yeah, be really present with what's coming alive in that. And again, you can actually just use the bedroom as this playground for that. Like, don't fucking worry about anything in life, but go, okay, I'm just deeply committed to speaking my needs, just using my voice in the bedroom. Just commit to that. Just devote to that and see the ripple just naturally see the ripple in everything else.

Meaghan Wall:

Wow. Love that. And I think one of the big themes that we've had here is just to have fun. Don't take things too seriously, like experiment. It's not that big of a fucking deal. Try new things. Don't take everything so seriously. All right Em I can see you bursting at the seams.

Emily Hazel:

Oh, this is so great because it circles it all up perfectly in a neat little bow back into money. And the visual that comes through is how, and you can look at this on Google, everybody I want you to Google it. If you have a pussy you need to look at this. So the link between your throat, your larynx, like the whole throat area, and your cervix, your vagina, your womb are almost identical in how they operate and what they look like. The anatomy is so similar. And so they're so intricately connected and where money comes from is the root right? The root part of the body is where your safety, your finances, your- your sexuality all live. And I'm studying to be a somatic sexologist. And we're using voice and sound quite a lot as the foundational tantric tools to move energy.

And so if speaking up is something that's challenging for you and how we fuck is how we do life, is how we make money, is how we show up, how are you fucking yourself? How much noise are you making with yourself? How are you letting the pleasure in is how you let money in, right. It's all so intertwined. And so if you think of the throat and the pussy being so interconnected, if you're not asking for what you want, then you're probably not receiving what you want. Right. So anatomically, if you're not using your voice and your mouth to communicate and to express and to pray and to declare you're not then opening your prosperity gates to receiving it. Biologically, anatomically, the feminine is wired to receive first, before she gives, right? Where we are penetrated by whether it's a dick, or a dildo, or a pleasure wand, or crystal, or a Yoni egg.

If you're weirdos like us, is where you're also penetrated by money. So if you're not using your voice for how you want to be fucked or licked or touched, you're also probably not receiving what you really want. I love singing as an easy way to access your voice. I mean, I'm a sacral in human design, like emotional 30, so I'm always making like the "mm" sounds. You should watch my mom eat any meal. Ever. Like she's like, "MMM", so I grew up with that being okay. But singing, humming, sounding in the shower, just like becoming more comfortable with yourself to be weird, because I find there's so much shame around noise because we're told, "Be quiet, shh shut up, don't ask questions." And so to become more comfortable with that means can you sigh and allow audible sound to be there? And with that, you feel the relaxation in your throat. You also feel the relaxation in your womb, in your womb space, which is how we receive everything, how we receive life.

Meaghan Wall:

I love that you mentioned eating and said "mmm" because I've been playing with that sound. And like just in the last month every bite I take just, "Mmmmm". You know? Cause I fucking love food y'all so like, why not express that shit, you know?

Meg O'Sullivan:

And do the same when you get money. Lick your lips. But when money lands in your bank account, can you sing out when your man touches you the way that you like it and confirm it? Like, use your vocal declaration as like a yes, yes, yes, yes. More of this please, more of this.

Meaghan Wall:

I love it. Okay, I don't want to take up any more of y'all's time. I have loved this. So I have about 10 more questions, but maybe we'll have another chat part two.

Emily Hazel:

Yeah.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Let's do it.

Meaghan Wall:

Okay, cool. So if y'all could leave my audience with one final piece of wisdom, what would that be? Meg.

Meg O’Sullivan:

Oh, the body, the body, the body, the body, the body, the body, the body. Come home to your body. Yeah, she is the portal, she's your wisdom keeper.

Meaghan Wall:

Yeah.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Connecting with her, listening to her. That's the way. That's the way.

Meaghan Wall:

Perfect.

Meg O'Sullivan:

I'm gonna steal Byron Katie's question. If I could put it on a billboard for everybody, it would just be, "What is true?" What's true here. What's true right now. What's true? Not like what you think is true, what's true under that. Because wherever truth is there's a source, there's heart, there's love, there's alignment.

Meaghan Wall:

I love the question. Why? And just like be a fucking three-year-old kid and just be like, "Well, why?" And then when you answer that, "Well, why? Why is that?" And then when you answer that, "Well, why is that?" Yeah. Love that. And just like, what is true for you? And then whatever comes to mind, challenge that shit and be like, is that actually true? Let's go a level deeper. All right. Now I would love to know where can we find you and what are you offering at the moment? How can we work with you, Meg?

Meg O'Sullivan:

Oh, okay. So the best place to find me? I hang out on Instagram, @the.meg.o. What am I offering? Um, depending on when this is out, another round of my really deep, juicy, intimate mentorship called Full Spectrum Woman is about to be opened up. So this is a three-month journey into remembering and reclaiming a full spectrum, femininity, and a full spectrum selves. Yeah. That's one of my most favorite things I do. I have some self-paced courses, a relationship course, my sexuality course called, Seduce Yourself. And I'm just opening a business mastermind at the moment called, Pussy, Pleasure, Purpose. So we're diving into all the energetics we spoke about today. Yeah, so that's me.

Meaghan Wall:

Alright, Em?

Emily Hazel:

When is this coming out? Meaghan?

Meaghan Wall:

Probably sometime in June.

Emily Hazel:

Okay. So, Fempire is a three-month business mystery school that runs every season. So there'll be an intake in September and again in January. What else do I have going on? I also have a couple of self-paced experiences that when I feel the nudge, I bring them live. So Alchemist is my core foundational manifestation program. It's like a month-long mindgasm of conscious, creatrix, deliciousness.

Meaghan Wall:

And where can we find you? What's your Insta?

Emily Hazel:

Oh, @spiritedseeker on Instagram and spiritedseeker.com is my website. And I know the website's a kind of secondary to Insta now, but it's so damn delicious. Like you got to get over there and take it in, cause my branding is sick.

Meaghan Wall:

I can confirm I have a Spirited Seeker, branded website. Yeah, absolutely. Oh my God. And talk about your Fempire deck.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yeah. Hold on. Can you grab it?

Emily Hazel:

So those of you listening, you'll have to go stalk me on Instagram too because I've just brought out a frequency flashcard deck for the bad-ass babes building a business, the fiercely feminine way. And it's written affirmation style so that you have something to anchor to when you're distracted or procrastinating, or you've lost your flow. So I'm running a giveaway at the moment, but they will be out on my site to buy, by the time this is out.

Meaghan Wall:

Maybe I'll do a cheeky little giveaway. I'll order a couple of decks and give one of my audience members a deck. Yay, I'm so excited. I'm going to get my hands on one of those decks girl, you know me and decks. So, thank you both so much for being here. I love you both. And-

Emily Hazel:

Yeah! This has been so fucking fun.

Meaghan Wall:

We will do it again. I hope you both have a great weekend and we'll talk soon.

Emily Hazel:

Love you. Thank you for having us.

Meg O'Sullivan:

Yes, thank you.

Meaghan Wall:

Bye.

EPISODE OUTRO:

Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of the Sacred Wealth Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. And if you did, please send me a voice memo through Anchor. I'd love to hear your thoughts, suggestions, questions, whether or not you'd like to have Em and Meg on another episode of the podcast, because I have so many more questions to ask them. I did want to take a quick moment to talk to you about the Sacred Money Method that I have just opened enrollment for.

Actually, the waitlist is going to be open until this Saturday. Let's see, July 3rd. This Saturday, July 3rd. And if you join the waitlist in that time, you could get $500 off. Or if you choose to do the payment plan, you could get a four-month payment plan instead of a three-month payment plan. I am only offering these two options to the waitlist people. So if that's something you are looking for, definitely check that out. The link for that will definitely be in the description as well as I wanted to speak a little bit on the sliding scale options.

So it is my goal. It is my value to make financial education accessible to the masses. Not just the rich white people of this world. So I do have a few options as far as payment plans for my 12 weeks program. And I'm going to go through them just real quickly.

So option one is the full payment option, which is $3,500. Or $1,200 each month for three months. Option two is a 25% off option that makes the total $2,625 or $875 for three months. For this option, if you occasionally struggle to meet basic needs, if you have little to no discretionary income and, or have manageable debt, you could qualify for that option. And there's only one spot available for that option. So if that speaks to you, if the program is everything you want and the 25% off option is the one you want to go with, shoot me a DM or mention it when you fill out your clarity call form. And we'll definitely talk about it on the call.

The last option is the 45% off option making the total full-pay $1,925 or $645 for three months. This 45% off option is for you if you frequently struggle to meet basic needs, or if you have very unmanageable debt, there's only one spot for this option. And if that's calling for you, either DM me on Instagram or mention the 45% off option three on your form that you fill out. I realize that this is a high ticket offer. I do free coaching all of the time. I have free offerings all of the time. I also believe that we can co-exist with our debt. So as a money coach, who coaches you to love your debt, to love your debt as an extension of yourself, as an extension of the universal wealth, the universal tap, the universal money.

I believe that if you were to put my program on a credit card, we will work together to create a co-existent relationship with that debt. I am in constant fluid motion with my debt, constantly paying off thousands of dollars worth of debt to zero, to then have $10,000 worth of debt, to then have zero.

I am at peace with my debt and it does not bring me any sort of anxiety or scarcity or fear because I have done that work within myself. So if you have, that desire to do that work within yourself. Then I highly suggest this program because, in phases four and phase five, we will be talking about setting up systems so that you can pay off your debt while living your life. We do not budget and my vortex never budget again. We embrace our debt and we have fun. We have fuckin' fun while we do it. All right, that's all I wanted to say for this episode. Thank you again so much, and I love you. Bye.

PODCAST OUTRO:

Thank you for listening to the Sacred Wealth Podcast. If you want to attract more money into your life, subscribe or follow Sacred Wealth wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you leave a five-star review on Itunes, it could be featured in a future episode, and be sure to share the podcast on social media when you listen. I'll see you next time.